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Thread: DeVlieg jig mill ?'s
05-11-2008, 10:22 PM #1
DeVlieg jig mill ?'s
Can someone explain DeVlieg jig mills a little more to me? Are they considered a horizontal boring mill or? I've seen them referred to as "jig" mills, am I wrong in thinking the use of "jig" being similar to a "jig" bore? How accurate, move wise, are they? I'm just wondering, for the purpose of machining stamping die sets, how accurately a CNC version could locate dowel holes, guide post bores, etc. Anyways, I'm just looking for a little more info on the DeVliegs. It looks like another company bought DeVlieg and still sells boring tooling but no longer manufactures the machines?
05-11-2008, 10:42 PM #2
Jig like jig bore.
Never outboard support for bar like HBM that I know of.
I have run them with both "end measures" (like P&W jig bore)
and more modern position controls.
05-11-2008, 11:19 PM #3
I dont think they are used for heavy stock removel. The ones I saw where put to work finishing up partly machined castings.
If memory serves they had a pretty fancy system for locating. End measuring rods (like John said). But after they hit the stop they would back up the lash and throw on the table lock.
As for accuracy, much depends on the wear of the machine, skill of the operator, level of elbow kissing in setup and measuring, etc. The Devlieg CNC's unless retrofitted are probably getting pretty long in the tooth.
Devlieg begat devlieg-bullard which was eventually bought by bourne and kouch. The tooling went to a different company.
05-11-2008, 11:24 PM #4
Accuracy, move wise, was as good as it got. A DeVlieg does not have the retraction that a conventional horizontal boring mill has. DeVlieg's answer to outboard supports and align boring bars was index tables with shot pins and boring gearboxes from both sides. It works best for some things, not at all for others.
If your work is of short z depth, a DeVlieg may well be the answer in a much smaller package than a horizontal boring mill. There was a time there were lots of shops in Detroit (home of DeVlieg) with lines of jig mills doing work such as die sets.
The DeVlieg "spiromatic" positioning feature was advertised as being within .0002 for repeatability in the 1950's. The one on mine still works, and is .0000 75% of the time, .0001 the rest of the time. I have never seen .0002.
Its old equipment now. I wouldn't trust any of them without verifying carefully. Done well, today, you will have more in the foundation, overhead crane, shipping, and other support equipment than you will in buying the boring mill.
05-12-2008, 08:50 AM #5
I was also curious as to the "Spiro-matic" feature. What does it stand for? Are there any online references for more info on DeVlieg's?
05-14-2008, 03:09 AM #6
The Spiromatic was the name Devlieg gave their automatic positioning feature. There's very little information on the net on Devliegs,becuase they quit making them probably in the early eighties. The only information you can get on the net is just bits and pieces. I was thinking of having a web site devoted to these machines, but have gotten too busy to even put the time into it recently. I have four of them at this point, and really like them. They are a wonderful machine to operate, but I must confess, hard to really positon the table accurately by hand. Trying to get the table located to a couple of tenths on a DRO takes some technique. The automatic postitioning feature works great on TWO of my mills, which is pretty amazing. There's certain jobs that they are really sweet to run on, and then there's other jobs much easier to do on my Sip Jig Bores.
With a combination of angle plates and indexing tables these machines are still pretty efficient producers of one off machines. The combination of the Devlieg Jigmills and their microbore bars, can make pretty short work of machining parts.
The main models of the Devliegs started out with the "B" series which was made from the early fifties, until around 1958. Then they came out with the "H" series which ran until around 1966. Then the "K" series. Each model got progressively more complex, with more automatic features, more electrical complexity. Even a run of the mill 2B36, has a pretty complex electrical cabinet. By the time they got to the K series with all electrical- hydraulic switching of the gears for speeds and feeds, they were an electrical engineers dream machine. I'm pretty good at electrical diagnosis, which is fortunate, because the Devliegs can certainly have some real head scratcher problems. I've got a 4H-96 that this summer I'm going to get back running- with a CNC control, I'm sure I'm in for some real fun.
05-14-2008, 07:03 AM #7
From A Detroit boy
I have run over a couple of dozen different ones,my first was in aboot 73,3inch bar readouts that went to 1/2 thou,72 inchs right to left.the owner was tight with Kelsey Hays(sp) we built the wheel dies for I swear every space saving spare tire,I machined the G. pins bores,slide pockets ,scap shoots,installed all locating dowels.
We were down the street from a Cat dealer,we also repaired dozer and back hoe parts,LARGE MONEY,clean the mud off,go right back to G.pins
As was said most are getting tired now,but they are a different breed from say a G&L.
The spindles are amazing for stiffness,largest is 5 or 6 inchs.
In Detwa(Detroit area)there are plenty of these machines still hitting it 10 hours a day,shops with six of them is not un common.IF rebilt proper like,installed proper like,(six feet of ceement)very accurate,but again,as said,you can buy em for 10 large,still got i/4 million to make it right,just guessing on the 1/4 mil.
I have earned good money filling the chip dumpster with em,all this said,retro fits generally suck,old iron is old iron,give me a new G&L for me birthday(last Monday)and I will be happy for ever.
DeVliegs need to be run different to move heavy metal,lighter more rapid cuts,they will cut with the 2 speed rapid button,I will stop rambling now,thanks for bringing them up it sure was fun hittin the recall button.
05-14-2008, 12:05 PM #8
Thanks for all the info everyone. Sounds like they may be a little more trouble than I'd want to put up with or could afford to put up with right now.
05-14-2008, 12:47 PM #9
Wholly SMOKES! Greg White- You're cutting metals using the two speed rapid??? That would really be making time! I've inadvertantly machined some metal in rapid, but never intentionally. I've got a 3B-96 (eight foot travels) that on the high speed rapid the table does full travel in about ten seconds. I don't know if I want to try that on this machine.
Some Devliegs are tired- BUT there's some incredibly NICE ones out there if you look hard. My first Devlieg (2B-36) looks and runs like it's brand new. I paid for it in ONE JOB! Although small in size it's a really fine machine for MOST work. I have two 96 inch table machines, one of which I use the table not for big parts, but with two pairs of angle plates, and an indexing table, so it's quick to fixture the majority of the parts I machine. Unlike a small Bridgeport mill where you stick a vice on it, you've used up the table, a 96 inch machine is like having a football field to work on.
05-14-2008, 10:06 PM #10
Rapid or rabid
Brian,yep hot rolled normalized weldments of the flismy type get loaded with cut pressure and do not viberrate,or maybe a large face on a table top machine base,mostly normo lized h.r.s. doe.not toolsteel.
You never run up some ceramic inserted cutter or high sheer(somewhat extreme angled)
carbide and cut in rapid????
like for example.big hot rolled face
4 inch dia. inserted face mill
500 rpms,.025 depth cut,
1/2 inch overlap
watch your chip placement doe!!!!!!!!
05-14-2008, 11:10 PM #11
I worked with a guy who was a controls engineer for Devlieg in Michigan (I think somewhere in the 80s)
He told me when a machine was done, they'd bore a hole 4.000" diameter at a "home" position (not sure how deep).
Then cycle the machine so each axis went to the limits of the travel.
Then go back to home and bore again.
If the result was more than .0004" out-of-round, they'd tear the machine apart and start rescraping...then repeat.
Less than .0004" TIR and they'd ship it.