Domestic Source for Low Cost Ceramic Shaft/Bearings

I've got a client who's asked me to prototype a new submersible pump for the aquarium market. The pump is going to have some very cool new features that (hopefully) will let it sell for a premium. That said, in the end it is going up against a bunch of super cheap and pretty decent pumps produced in China.

All of the submersible aquarium pumps on the market today run pretty much the same design. There is an impeller glued to a permanent magnet which makes the rotor. This rotor houses 2 ceramic plain bearings that spin on a ceramic shaft. The shafts have a nice smooth finish. I'm 95% confident that these are both zirconia... though I haven't sent them off for analysis.

The Chinese pumps are sold on Amazon for around $25 complete. I've been playing with a couple of models and they are pretty decent. Replacement shafts can be bought retail for $3-5... so these shafts must be dirt cheap wholesale in China! My client figures he can sell his pump for $250 to the fancy end of the market, so we have some wiggle room, but of course there is more to a pump than a shaft and bearings!

I want to use a similar shaft/bearings design... I can't think of an approach that will out perform this basic setup.

I've been calling around looking for ceramic shaft and bearing materials from a domestic supplier. All I have found is guys who are making technical ceramics for military (etc) applications. They want $600 for a 1/8" x 6" shaft, take 30% off if you buy 20, and these don't even have a surface finish!

Does anyone know of a North American outfit that can supply a basic ceramic shaft and bearing unit at a price that is more inline with the market? I don't care too much about exact dimensions, I can work around what is available... I'm just not finding anything within 10x of the target price range.

Right now, for prototypes I'm planning to use 316SS shaft with UHMW bearings as a stand in... but this combo is never going to holdup in salt water the way ceramic will. I don't even want to ship an alpha-test unit with this tech, cause it is going to die *way* too fast.

Trying to keep it on-shore.

Thanks,

Bill

Try the igus polymer bearings they will massively outperform your UHMW.

IMHO things like thoes cermaic bearings are easiest bought from china or whoever else the source is. Making high precision bearings that work - hold up in water is not easy, ceramics are not just about material but also powder and grain size. Theres more too it than there seams. The tooling to press and fire them does not scale cost wise down wards, equally a plated diamond hones not cheap. Now once you have set up to make them, yeah your per part costs are nothing, but setups extortionate.

Yeah, I just got a quote for $50/part on 1,000 parts and $1,000 for the prototype. Best pricing so far from a North American Supplier... by a pretty big margin!

It looks like the going rate for these things on Alibaba is around $0.15/part for 1000 parts. Alibaba is showing me more than 100 different potential suppliers. Perhaps that is too good to be true, but it is just a *massive* difference... 333x!

It's a bit depressing really. I guess it's time to cut bait and go with the Chinese product.

Not sure if they have a US office, but they are known for a good quality.

Homepage | Morgan Technical Ceramics

You need to get your head around it differently. Out of all the pond pumps in the world what 99% are made there? They pretty much all work the same way, hence they all need the same bearing. The bearing is a sintered product just like a lathe insert. Its akin to the difference between turning and single point screw cutting one common bolt and the way bolts are cold forged at near zero cost in qty. Material and processes are different, but qty cost savings and efficiencies are just the same.

Pretty much every were in the us or over here that may make ceramic bearings is going to be doing just a few, not have a factory cranking out pump bearings, ergo its the same. Goto a ceramic bearing supplier in china, bet you they too will be expensive, now buy them from someone all ready tooled up and making em, yeah the costs will be near zero to run off a couple of hundred more. The material is not that expensive, its all the tooling - processes and such that go with it.

I hate the near racist way some here bash other countries, it just shows complete ignorance to the way the modern world functions. Yep theres time other countries can not do it as well. But for a common comodity part like this, yeah they should be blowing everyone else out of the water, just like you could if you were the goto supplier in the world for that object.

Thanks for your thoughts adama.

Perhaps I am reading your msg incorrectly, but you appear to be implying that I am a racist. This could not be farther from the truth.

In fact, my real concern is what is wrong with *my country* that we are no longer willing/able to produce basic parts at a competitive price... or even within an Order of Magnitude of competitive! I worry that this is a sign of a much bigger problem... a problem that is our own. I see that you are from the UK, and really, my concern is that the US is following the path of the UK and losing it's ability to participate industrially in a meaningful way. Clearly this has been economically and culturally disastrous for the UK. I fear this loss of industrial relevance will have terrible ramifications for the UK (and perhaps the US) for many generations yet. The Chinese and the Germans are not making this mistake and this is to their great credit.

You also make a point about "natural monopoly" in stating that because of efficiencies of scale, all production should fall into the hands of a single supplier who is able to undercut all others on price and become the "goto" global source. There are a couple of points I hope you will deign consider.

First, because there appear to be more than 100 Chinese suppliers of these products, no natural monopoly can currently be in existence and so the natural monopoly dynamic can not be at play here. Second, if there were a monopoly in these parts, the prices for these parts would not be low. Rather the prices would be "monopoly prices" which are very much higher than "competitive prices".

Your rant about racism and ignorance may do more to discredit your own muddy thinking on the nature of the world than anything else. Too bad. I have long held the opinion that despite the UK's steady unrelenting loss of industrial, economic, military, and cultural influence it was still a proud beacon of civility. Perhaps it is time to refactor this assessment well?

Ignorantly yours,
Billy Boy

"Standard Ceramic Rods" at mcmaster. Non-porous Alumina 1/8 x 12" $20. Zirconia 1/8 x 12" $50. Order one and ask for certs and country of origin with your shipment. They are as likely to have a US source as anybody.

Was not ranting at you, sorry, more the forum in general. This place is very much against the notion of Chinese sourcing even of commodity parts.

Whilst i have little doubt you have found a mass of suppliers over there, don't make the assumption there all manufacturers, chances are very few of them will be they will all just be dealers competing for your trade, most will want to pass them selves off as manufacturers to stop you dealing with others, but dig a little deeper and you will soon find other wise, its kinda a Chinese business model.

Up the bikes, so at $20 a foot for raw material how are you going to make it onto high precision parts of any length for 15 cents each? Yeah centre less grindings cheap, but were is your profit going to ever appear from?

Don't get me started on the local enginering decline, its sad and you guys are doing exactly the same. The whole buy local for more £££ is just a retarded argument, you want to make a product and have it sell well, you need to make it better or cheaper than the competition, trying to create some kinda artificial marketplace monopoly never works long term, just stifles advancement and leaves your country ever further behind in whats becoming a ever more competitive and smaller world!!

Adama - I just meant ordering one piece from mcmaster. if the order comes in with country of origin USA (or wherever) on the cert slip for the shaft, then Billy Boy knows that a) there IS a manufacturer out there making these domestically in (wherever) country, in standard sizes, and b) there is a decent chance to find that supplier and get volume prices more in line to what he's looking for.