Thread: An Effort to help Students and "Want-to-be" Students in the machining trade

About me..

I'm a semi-retired machine shop owner, live in San Diego CA, I attended College of the Desert in Palm Desert in the Sixties.

I've written a piece, on the essence of what you "buy" when you attend college. People who I have shown this piece to, include students and professors. They all thought it was needed information to help students focus on the purpose of higher learning. It is an eight page piece I call "The Solid Gold Tool Box." I'd like to get it out there for the students.

You may find it on the "Web" under.. "The Solid Gold Tool Box" The Quotes are good to use.

Also.. https://plus.google.com/102643668278...ts/VpAN574GXpP

Comments from readers:
I had a young man here visiting my shop, he was a junior in college. I gave him The Solid Gold Tool Box. He asked if he could read it here in my office. When he was done reading it with great intent, he looked up at me and said, "Every freshman going to college needs to read this paper!"

Another young man read it and exclaimed, I had no idea you could find a job this way too.

I loved the Solid Gold Tool Box. My own graduate students rarely have anyone behind them who has given them such valuable, commonsensical support for their own capacity to be a grownup and take charge of their own life. I was thinking of several people, as I read it, who would have benefited from your wisdom.
Warm wishes,
Nancy

Very impressive, Stanley. I enjoyed this paper immensely, and it hit home (not only for my UOP students, but with regard to my journey as well). I especially loved the story about Jennifer.

Keep up the good work, and thanks for sharing this with me.

Best,
Vickie.. Professor at University of Phoenix

Thank you,

Stan-

I hope I don't upset the apple cart with the moderators...

Regards,

Stan-

While I can certainly appreciate the effort and there are indeed be some good points in your article, you might want to consider having it looked over by a professional copy editor. If you intend to reach a college level audience, the piece must be written to at least a college level. Quite frankly, yours is not.

Look at the formatting, use of punctuation (especially quotations,) paragraph structure, and usage of bold text. I'm sure you'll see areas that could use some rework. Keep in mind that the written word should not necessarily read like a verbal conversation.

Once again, I can really appreciate the effort, and certainly don't mean to offend you with a little constructive criticism.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by bucktruck

While I can certainly appreciate the effort and there are indeed be some good points in your article, you might want to consider having it looked over by a professional copy editor. If you intend to reach a college level audience, the piece must be written to at least a college level. Quite frankly, yours is not.

Look at the formatting, use of punctuation (especially quotations,) paragraph structure, and usage of bold text. I'm sure you'll see areas that could use some rework. Keep in mind that the written word should not necessarily read like a verbal conversation.

Once again, I can really appreciate the effort, and certainly don't mean to offend you with a little constructive criticism.

Good luck.

Have you talked to a college student lately? Most of their reading/language skills are at what I would consider a "fifth grade" level, and that's the more lucid ones.

-Ron

Thank you Bucktruck..

I appreciate your contribution.

Best regards,

Stan-

Thanks for posting that Stan. It definitely is nice to see older folks who make the effort to try and pass along their experience with the younger generations. Unlike bucktruck, I do not think something like this needs to be written for a specific reading ability so long as it is clear and understandable, which it very much is for me.

Not to hijack the thread, but although your points are valid, I do not entirely agree with them and in fact believe that students should have learned many of those skills prior to college. Personally, I believe what you posted is the hope of every parent - that their children should learn valuable skills (learning how to learn) and better themselves in college, but I honestly believe that many parents today have lost sight of the necessary end - a good paying career for their children. While learning to speed read, learning to learn, and "broadening one's horizons" is nice, students need to be realistic. They need to realize that a BA/BS in art history, underwater basketweaving, or sports fitness will not lead to a career that pays nearly as well as engineering, medicine, or law, and they need to be taught how to compare cost of college vs return on said cost. To me, the worst advice any parent ever gave their children was, "just get a degree, ANY degree."

Thank you CWB..

Of course they in the pre college classes, should pick up learning how to learn. In my experience, I have never heard that being said, even in the four colleges I went to. I did hear the differences between Bachelor, Master, and Doctor's degrees coming from one instructor.

The two professors I referenced in the original post, they didn't know it, and that's two out of two. I don't think even in the high schools they know it. That is why I wrote this piece. It's has been new information to all I have passed it to.

I know having it in here, I may be over stepping bounds, but I wanted to get it propagated.
Thank you Milacron.

Anyhow..

Thank you for your comment. I appreciate it.

Regards,

Stan-

Originally Posted by CWB

Not to hijack the thread, but although your points are valid, I do not entirely agree with them and in fact believe that students should have learned many of those skills prior to college

I agree, and in fact if our kids are not at that level they will get eaten up by the foreign students who will have those skills already. Much of it is common sense. There will be kids with the skills for the future, where they come from is anyone's guess...but rest assured they will comes from EVERYWHERE and they will go EVERYWHERE to exist.

Stan,

While your document can benefit a wide variety of kids, it really doesn't focus on any of the major concerns of a student looking to focus on machining and/or manufacturing. Maybe you can add a section in for "machinists" specific. I mention this as modern machining is not as much of the manual processes that it once was, in fact, it was a part of "industrial arts" when I was growing up and going through K-12. In Northern California most of the education system for public schools have closed their industrial arts programs in favor of CAD programs, to educate the students on more modern design. Programs like "Inventor" would be great for kids with an interest in machining/manufacturing. Sketch-Up as well, but more specific is to be able to work with modern machinery and understand how to go through the thought process to produce parts on CNC or other computer controlled machinery. It is certain that the future is in digital, rather than the mechanical systems of yore (manual lathes, manual mills, etc...). Nowadays you can use a 3d printer to $#!T out a part in minutes, the details are scanned in and the results come at phenomenal speed...we will most likely not get rid of manual processes, but it would be an injustice to teach our youth that in hopes that it will be the mainstream. This would be useful information to be in a document as yours.

How we best train our youth for the future in that sense, is a difficult decision. It's changing at light speed, we continue to enable computers to process different aspects of our lives, and machining is one of them. Because of this it's really hard to keep up, but the system needs to adapt and the youth needs to work with new technology as well, to be valuable in the future for jobs that will exist. This aspect of machining and manufacturing would be key for any youth interested in that area.

Some kids will be over achievers always, and others won't. That is most likely due to the fact that we're all human after all... (for the good and bad, we are one as a whole)

We can teach our youth to be better humans, and it seems your document is all about doing that. So I support your effort, just wanted to explain that there is much more important aspect of machining/manufacturing specific that we should be teaching our youth if we want them to be leaders in that area. Maybe it would be possible for you to add some of that and produce a "machining/manufacturing" specific version of your document.

I live in an area where all the parents want their children to be Lawyers or Doctors, and many of them will. But I tell my kids, and other kids, to follow their heart. Some of their parents are very opposed to my view, but so be it.

My son is involved in design, but from an artistic aspect. It is labeled Design/Media Art. It merges computers with artistic design. Just like machining, that area is changing at light speed. He's is interested in machining and manufacturing, but approaches it from an artistic viewpoint. IOW, being able to manufacture specific products, architecting buildings, designing more comfortable homes, art concepts, etc...yes, I hope he will attain all of your points on your document...but I have to say that in 21 years he hasn't mastered all of them, but he IS getting better. I'll send him a link to your document.

Regards,
Alan

Originally Posted by MetalCarnage

Have you talked to a college student lately? Most of their reading/language skills are at what I would consider a "fifth grade" level, and that's the more lucid ones.

-Ron

Ron,
Why yes, yes I have. A former roommate was a speech teacher at the local university. He used to let us read some of the papers he was grading, and they were not pretty. Perhaps that was the inspiration for my post, as I have found that most college students these days don't know a period from a question mark. In an ideal world, writing proficiency and reading comprehension would improve, but I realize that this might be a pipe dream in the days of text messaging and internet forums.


Stan,
I apologize if my post came across as too harsh, as that was certainly not my intention. Kudos to you for spending the time and effort to help the younger folks realize the benefits of higher learning, and more importantly, providing them with some tools to help.

Regards,
BT

Originally Posted by bucktruck

Ron,

Stan,

Kudos to you for spending the time and effort to help the younger folks realize the benefits of higher learning, and more importantly, providing them with some tools to help.

Regards,
BT

BT.. Thank you for your "Cheers," as this is exactly what I'm trying to do. There was a young woman "dealing" coffee near my Kaiser clinic. As she filled my cup, I found out she was in college, so I gave her "The Solid Gold Tool Box" paper. A month later I stopped by and asked her if she had read it. She said, You mean "The Solid Gold Tool Box?" I smiled a yes at her. She said she showed it to her friends and they like it too. So she made more copies of it for them.

I think these young people need this focus, or map to help them find the path. It seems the faculties in these colleges are so busy with the tasks of daily classes, they forget to stick their heads above their cubical to see where they are going.

Regards,

Stan-

Stan,

Got your PM and tried to reply, but your inbox is full.

Regards,
Alan

Alan..

I finally figured it out. What a hide and seek gymnastic I had to go through to dump the pm's.

Regards,

Stan-

Originally Posted by MetalCarnage

Have you talked to a college student lately? Most of their reading/language skills are at what I would consider a "fifth grade" level, and that's the more lucid ones.

-Ron

Yeah and even those at a fifth grade level know the difference between "rap" and wrap".

Originally Posted by tdmidget

Yeah and even those at a fifth grade level know the difference between "rap" and wrap".

I laughed but it's really not funny (really, really sad though).

Stan - I printed off a copy of "The Golden Toolbox" for my college bound daughter. I'll let you know what kind of reaction I get once she has read it.

Thanks,

-Ron

Originally Posted by MetalCarnage

I laughed but it's really not funny (really, really sad though).

Stan - I printed off a copy of "The Golden Toolbox" for my college bound daughter. I'll let you know what kind of reaction I get once she has read it.

Thanks,

-Ron

Thank you! I'd be pleased to know her opinion.

My regards to her as well,

Stan-

Thanks to everyone who read "The Solid gold Tool Box." I hope it helps the college bound students out there.

I now have a beginning of a Blog. I will be loading it with this and additional articles I have written in the past.
I will be writing about items which interest me, especially if I become excited. Since machining is my favorite
subject I'll continue there, as I unwind my other mind cramps. The Blog: "Observations Worth Writing About"

Other titles: "Einstein the Frog," Are You in Business to Save Money?", "First Aid for the Common Cold," "Milling with Standard Three Flute Cutters." .. and a few more.

Best regards to you all,

Stan- Of course I'll still be in PM.

Originally Posted by Metalcutter

Thank you! I'd be pleased to know her opinion.

My regards to her as well,

Stan-

Stan,

I had my daughter read "The Golden Toolbox" the other night. She enjoyed it and was pleased to read it. On the other hand, I was a bit concerned with the conclusions she had arrived at upon reading it. To explain -

I have been very critical of her choice of majors which are "religion" and "music" (she is an "A" student and enjoys chemistry). This may be more my problem than hers but I would be a lot more comfortable if she were to pursue something with a little more commercial value to it, heck I would be happy with a "general" BA. Needless to say I am somewhat remiss in having to fork out the money to pay out of state tuition for four years (at a minimum). The "conclusion" that she had drawn from reading your piece was that, "It doesn't matter what I major in as long as I'm happy." Maybe I'm just missing something as I don't see her present course giving her the "tools" for much of anything.

What do you think? Should I relax about it and just resign myself to it or continue to espouse the need for something with a little more weight to it?

-Ron

Originally Posted by MetalCarnage

Stan,

I had my daughter read "The Golden Toolbox" the other night. She enjoyed it and was pleased to read it. On the other hand, I was a bit concerned with the conclusions she had arrived at upon reading it. To explain -

I have been very critical of her choice of majors which are "religion" and "music" (she is an "A" student and enjoys chemistry). This may be more my problem than hers but I would be a lot more comfortable if she were to pursue something with a little more commercial value to it, heck I would be happy with a "general" BA. Needless to say I am somewhat remiss in having to fork out the money to pay out of state tuition for four years (at a minimum). The "conclusion" that she had drawn from reading your piece was that, "It doesn't matter what I major in as long as I'm happy." Maybe I'm just missing something as I don't see her present course giving her the "tools" for much of anything.

What do you think? Should I relax about it and just resign myself to it or continue to espouse the need for something with a little more weight to it?

-Ron

The reason I said it doesn't matter what you major in, is because at a young age you really haven't had time to read the menu of options you might like to pursue. Many young people change majors or work in fields they didn't major in. Ron I did you read the "Solid Gold Tool Box?" I suspect you may not have. I think the answers you're looking for are in the text of the article.

I'm happy you have shown it to your daughter. Please reply again and let me know if you have read it.

Best regards to you and her,

Stan-

I did read it Stan, I just have a slightly different view of things. I too did not work in a field that I majored in (electronics engineering/physics ended up programming computers) but even so I still feel that there are "majors" that better prepare you for going out in to the working world than others, especially when there is a high likelihood that one will not advance to a career for which their major was "aimed" at.

Best regards,

-Ron

Originally Posted by MetalCarnage

I did read it Stan, I just have a slightly different view of things. I too did not work in a field that I majored in (electronics engineering/physics ended up programming computers) but even so I still feel that there are "majors" that better prepare you for going out in to the working world than others, especially when there is a high likelihood that one will not advance to a career for which their major was "aimed" at.

Best regards,

-Ron

Okay.. GOOD POINT! Now that I know we are on equal ground we can talk.

I wouldn't expect a student who was good in math to major in basket weaving. I would expect he would attempt something a bit more of a challenge.

In your case with your daughter, maybe a heart to heart talk with her, explaining why she might get a better education (Better Learning Skills) by taking a more scholastic major. Since you are her parent, she looks to you for encouragement and guidance, not directives. Let her know, in YOUR opinion, she sits pretty high on the totem pole and she may be bored trying to study some of the lesser subjects.

Never let a compliment go unsaid.

She also may be teasing you, to see your reaction and what you come up with. They do that you know.

Thank you for reading the "Solid Gold tool Box," I hope you and she can arrive on the same page.
Since this is getting pretty personal, maybe using a private message to let me know how you work things out would be nice. I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Best regards.

Stan-