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Forum for Wells-Index?

DKillam

Plastic
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Location
San Angelo, Texas
I hope this is the right place to ask!
Is there a forum on this site that would relate to Wells-Index (or Index) mills? I haven't seen anything specific or it could be that there's not enough interest or difference from Bridgeport mills to warrant a separate forum.
Just asking - thanks. :willy_nilly:
 
yes

yes that would be great for some of us.

I am getting ready to get mine up and running. I guess we can go back and forth amoung the few of us

ben
 
What's a Bridgeport??

My raggedy ol' (and cheep) 645 has been on the job in my shop for about 8 years. Someday I might drag it up to Michigan and let Wells-Index refurbish it.

Anybody have a #9 B&S slitting saw arbor they don't need?


Rex
 
Sometimes I wish all of us model 40 owners lived in the same place so we could get together and swap stories about the work we've done on our "little beasts".... when I got mine I wasn't sure exactly how far it's capabilities extended until I saw some pictures posted by Robert Cambell on this board of a setup he did on his. I haven't pushed mine very hard yet, but apparently you can. I guess short of everyone moving to Bakersfield, this forum is the next best thing. Always nice to hear from another Wells-Index owner; I'm a big fan of their machines.

John
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I was hoping I wasn't the only one here that couldn't find a cheap Bridgeport :crazy: - just kidding!!

Rex - sorry, I don't have anything but the mill and even it isn't in my shop yet. I'll pick it up on Monday (all 2800 lbs) and start the long process of cleanup and maybe even a paint job.

I called Rick Robison at Wells-Index a couple of days ago to ask about a manual and possibly a new single phase motor to replace the three phase unit.

I bought the manual ($45) and he told me a little about the machine - when it was made, who it was sold to, etc. He said he would send me a copy of the serial card without me even asking :D.
He also said that a new motor is available ($895) :eek:, but I haven't made a decision about that yet.

John - "big beast" comes to my mind when looking at what I've bought!

BTW - my "new" toy is a Model 847, S.N. 17926 and I believe it was made in 1975 - can't remember for sure right now until I get the serial card.
No tooling - no nothing except the mill.
Good news though - it uses R8 collets and is in fair shape.

I'll post up some pics when it comes home.
- Don
 
I called Rick Robison at Wells-Index a couple of days ago to ask about a manual and possibly a new single phase motor to replace the three phase unit.

I bought the manual ($45) and he told me a little about the machine - when it was made, who it was sold to, etc. He said he would send me a copy of the serial card without me even asking :D.
He also said that a new motor is available ($895) :eek:, but I haven't made a decision about that yet.
- Don

Don:

Keep the 3 phase motor and add a variable frequency drive - it will give you more options and be cheaper. I am also a fan of the Wells Index mills. They are well built here in the USA with parts still available. Rick is also a great asset. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) they are not as well known as Bridgeport and subsequently sell for less on the used market.

Charles
 
Keep the 3 phase motor and add a variable frequency drive -


That's the ticket. I have a Teco VFD on my 645 running with 220V 1PH.
FactoryMation is a good source: http://www.factorymation.com/

index13.jpg



Rex
 
Wells-Index

We have one where I work, boss got it for free when he bought a Leadwell from another company. It's CNC, Bosch controls, other than the X, Y & Z position it's dead in the water. Motor won't even run.... I'd like to get it running but don't know where to start.
 
It would nice to have a Wells-Index forum. Even though I don't own one, I always considered a Wells-Index my first choice for a milling machine. And also a VFD for the 3 phase motor. In fact if VFD's were readily and cheaply available when the VS 747 first came out I would have bought a new one.
 
Index is a truly unique name in vertical mills.

Going strong in the early forties, (one of mine is a 1940 and Bridgeport dates from 1938) and selling new American made machines to this day! A quietly remarkable story.

The great variety of verticals is also unique. From our modest yet quite sturdy and capable little 40H machines, through your "new" 847 Don, and beyond to todays profitable CNC verticals. Who would have guessed that among all manufacturers, Wells-Index would have been the one to emerge alive as all others failed*, though some did have their names taken off-shore for a while.

No doubt other factors beyond worth of machines came into play, obviously the only successful long-term, "all made in America" business model, which by good management, modest expansion (intended or otherwise), tenacious effort and no doubt, good luck, has emerged the tortoise among the many hares.

One of my great sorrows is that I passed on a large Wells-Index combination horizontal/vertical in good condition, for a modest price, in the sale of an old mans collection in L.A. a few years ago. I never before or since have even heard of that model, that I fear met it's end at the scrappers.:(

Re the $895 motor, yes, a lot of money for those of us who search for bargain machines but to offer a unique motor configuration to so tiny a market, for less than $1,000 shows the restraint that this tenacious little company has made their hallmark and built their success on. There is no way that Wells-Index can make any real money in this tiny market, at that price, yet they still offer it. Especially when you factor in that Wells-Index is well aware that their parts market is mostly comprised of mechanically adept tinkerers who think nothing of adapting motors to machines, yes, a truly unique company!

Hats off to the succession of successful businessmen who've headed up the company through the years and most especially to Rick Robison, who hangs on while giants fall all around him!......

.....in the background I'm listening to the news that the gov is selling off most of GM's brands, retaining but 3, reconsolidating it as a 75% nationalized, State owned entity.... didn't work in the USSR.......
Heart breaking to a guy whose first real, (had several Ford hotrods) vehicle was a 2 year-old, '53 Chevy 5 window, half-ton pickup, a new '55 V8 red and white sports coupe with "Power Pak", (4 barrel and dual pipes, really my dads, I drove it to high school) new '72 Blazer, many others, with a GMC full size, short bed half ton, an older, ('97) S-10 and a Buick Century sitting in the driveway outside my window. No emoticon is serious enough...

...whew........anyway, congratulations Don, we'll be expecting a full photo essay on your new machine.:)

Bob
*None of the above is intended to disparage what is todays Hardinge, who traded for the Bridgeport name a few years ago, after a succession of other players, including giant Textron.
Hardinge has moved the assembly of the Series I Bridgeport from Bridgeport CT. to New York and offer it still today. Would "Elmira" sound as good as "Bridgeport"?:D Maybe the Oak Ridge boys could write a catchy theme song, ah boom wapa boom......
I have no way to determine how large a role the public statement of Hardinge: "Today, the company has grown into a globally diversified player; with manufacturing operations in the U.S., Switzerland, China and Taiwan," plays in the parts of the new Series I Bridgeport, though it appears to still be a quality machine from a quality company. 350,000 Bridgeports speak of very high regard and success!
 
The H/V Robert Campbell mentioned is probably one like this -

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I have 3 Wells Index mills, 2 847s and the 860 shown above. They are truly great machines, and it's amazing how cheap they can be purchased used because they are relatively unknown. I bought my first one new in '78 or '79.

I mounted a Kurt power drawbar to one, just milled the top of the vari speed arm flat and made an adaptor plate, then modified the drawbar parts from Kurt to work in the Wells.

I have a Teledyne DRO on one that I want to take off and sell, with all the factory brackets and such, PM me if anyone is interested at $450. It works fine but I want to put a Newall on with bolt circles and all the bells and whistles. So far it hasn't happened because the old DRO still works fine and we've been busy.

I also have an extra vertical vari speed head and ram for a 747 or 847 for sale if someone needs one.

Here's a headless Wells-Index I saw on Ebay - must have been ordered horizontal only -
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I need the end support for the horizontal arbor as shown above if anyone knows of one available.

And here's another oddity - A Wells Index radial drillpress -

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Thanks Mud, I probably would have taken that one home! It's been 2 or 3 years but it seems like it was bigger and boxier, probably a little later. I think it was 40 taper vertical and 50 taper horizontal, or maybe I was just confused.

Bob
 
As far as I know, they are all 40 taper on the horizontal. The vertical spindle can be R8, 30 NMTB, or a Quick Switch, as can all the verticals. I'm not familiar with a larger machine, doesn't mean there isn't one, of course! I did see a large horizontal that was completely different from these, more like a Cincinnati but much older looking, had INDEX cast in the overarm IIRC. Here's alink to the current 860 on the Wells Index site - http://wellsindex.com/cnc-milling-machines.html
 
GregSY:
"I wish my 847 had the 30 Taper instead of the R8."

I don't know "squat" about taper types. I was told by a tool salesman that the R8 taper was a good thing. Why is one better than another? Is it personal preference or better design or holding capability or what?
Why did a company offer more than one size/type of collet - to allow standardized tooling in a shop?

Regarding motors/VFD's:
Once I get the mill, I'll look at either making an adapter plate to use a more common single phase motor or use a VFD or buy a new one from Rick. I'll base my decision on function, reliability and/or cost. I don't mind paying more for quality parts/equipment/tooling if I can justify the extra cost (in my mind:crazy:) One thing I have learned recently is that, unless I have no other choice, I'll never buy another Chinese electric motor :rolleyes5:.



BTW - I paid $850 for the mill ;).
 
IMO....R8 is better simply because there is a lot of cheap and versatile tooling out there. But 30 NMTB is a 'stouter' and more 'heavy duty' than R8. I actually have two 847's, the older one is a step pulley drive rather than variable speed and it has the 30NMTB. It's just a more 'serious' setup.

As for a VFD, unless it is for starting I don't see why you would want one if you have an 847 with a variable speed head. (?)
 
W-I motors conversion

GregSY:

Regarding motors/VFD's:
Once I get the mill, I'll look at either making an adapter plate to use a more common single phase motor or use a VFD or buy a new one from Rick.

I converted my 745 to single phase by modifying a scrapped out 3ph motor (for the mounting flange) and installing a 56c frame motor.
It works ok, but I get vibrations at some speeds. I think that the motor may not be the best balanced one on the market, and the shaft needed an adaptor to use the original pulley.
If I was to consider this again, I'd spend a few more dollars and use a VFD.

Regards the "Wells Index Forum", I sent a PM to Milicron offering to act as moderator for the forum if it could be established. Perhaps we could include some other non-bridgeport North American made machine such as the Tree, Gorton, or Excello. They don't really fall into the Heavy Iron catagory, but "Don't get no respect" ( think Rodney Dangerfield) on some of the other forums.

Cheers
Pete
 
As for a VFD, unless it is for starting I don't see why you would want one if you have an 847 with a variable speed head. (?)

My thought was to use the VFD for phase conversion with speed control as a bonus.

Pete:
Thanks for offering to be a moderator for a W-I forum (and others). If it happens - great - if not, I'll use one of the other forums (Bridgeport...?) to ask questions. Somehow, it just doesn't feel right - like going to a Ford dealer to buy Chevy parts! :o

-Don
 
And here's another oddity - A Wells Index radial drillpress -

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I owned one of those years ago. Same head as mill but spinde is no. 3 Morse taper. Radial movement not as nice as Donau (German) however.
 








 
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