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Good reference for gear making technology?

bryan_machine

Diamond
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
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Near Seattle
Can anybody point me to a good reference (web page, book, catalog, whatever) about the various flavors of gear making technology, why they're used, etc?

I'm talking about "skiving" vs "gashing" vs "hobbing" vs "shaping" of gears.

(My google foo for some reason keeps bringing up references to some mech warrior like video game... sigh....)
 
Can anybody point me to a good reference (web page, book, catalog, whatever) about the various flavors of gear making technology, why they're used, etc?
Best one : Dudley. Practical Gear Design (I think. Or words close to that) ... I like the one with the blue cover, it's got less foofoo crap, more manufacturing-oriented. A few chapters on design, a chapter or so on each production method. Not quite as down-and-dirty as you might like but the closest one to that.

Next best : Dudley again, Gear Handbook. Again, I prefer the older editions, not as much foofoo. But to each their own. This one is more on the design end and a lot of it is really beyond the average user's needs. You're not concerned with hypoids, right ?

On these two books hang all the rules and the prophets ...

If you are looking around the used book stores, one that was put out by Red Ring is interesting as hell. Modern Methods of Gear Manufacture. They were big on shavers and grinders which you probbaly don't want, the explanations and descriptions in the front are excellent but everybody has a version of those but the great part is - 2/3 of the book is real-life examples. Some really really cool stuff. If you see a copy, grab it just for that.

I'm talking about "skiving" vs "gashing" vs "hobbing" vs "shaping" of gears.
This is easy.

Skiving you will probaly never see. It's like hobbing with negative rake, carbide blanks brazed to the teeth of the hob with funny backwards-angled teeth, used mostly (exclusively ?) for recutting hardened gears. Big gears usually go foofoo in heat treat (small ones too but not as much), skiving is to bring them back to the right size and shape. It's a finishing operation on hard parts. People nowadays go to grinding for that. Grinding is much more accurate and faster.

Gashing is single-tooth cutting. Can be very fast, much faster than any other method, tooth shape is now good but tooth spacing is a problem. Cutters are ungodly expensive. It's economical for big big stuff or for one-offs. If you wanted to make a replacement part for your 1903 Biggleston shaper, you'd probably gash it using a home-made cutter. Most of the slewing bearings for wind turbines are gashed with $8,000 cutters.

Shaping is usually used for internals, parts with a shoulder or another feature very close (think automotive cluster gears), some really weird shapes (but not sure anyone does that anymore), non-round gears, things that you can't hob for practical reasons. Most people prefer hobbing, shapers reciprocate at high speeds and stuff likes to shake loose. Then kapow ! haul out the checkbook. Also, it's easier to mess up on setup and blow up your $300 cutter. Some things are faster to shape - thin parts like sprockets, especially because there is not as much overtravel. Many people start out with a shaper because the principles are easy to understand and the machine takes up less space and there's a ton of them around for cheap. But you can't cut helicals without a guide for each part, so in general, shaping at the job-shop level is restricted to straight-cut teeth.

Yes, people have tried controlling cutter and part spindles for helicals with cnc, the machines were not super-successful and pretty expensive. Mitsubishi in particular but I don't think anyone uses those in production. I guess they are okay for short-runs and prototypes.

Hobbing - the preferred method for most gear cutting. Threaded cutter moving in synchronization with the blank, bla bla. You can find dozens of good explanations online. If the memory isn't blown out, about 70% of gears are hobbed.

Bevels are in a different family, can't do them with any of the methods above. But there are Spiroids and Planoids and several other weird systems that can be hobbed to cut right-angle gearing. Almost nobody does that tho :D Just stick to the normal stuff for now, Kato ....

All of this stuff comes in both mechanical and cnc versions.

If you are thinking of a small repair shop, since I am too old to start anew I'll toss this competitive trade secret out : get a Maag shaper. They are slow as oppossums but they can do just about anything (except for worms) and the cutters are cheap. You can even make your own, easily. Don't know why I didn't do this in the first place ... the lure of high-speed stroking, I guess. Cutters are the bane of a gear shop. No matter how many you have, the damned customers will find a job that needs the one you don't have.

(My google foo for some reason keeps bringing up references to some mech warrior like video game... sigh....)
Ongoing argument with the assistant - "WHY do you insist on looking up technical words on the internet ? you're NOT going to find it !!"

Oh well. What we do for a sniff ....

p.s. If you are thinking about doing this for a shop ? I'd grab someone who had been doing it for a while. There's a lot of stuff you learn the hard way. Having a guy around to help avoid the pitfalls would be worth it, especially in the beginning. Grab some lazy old codger just to tell you "Unh-unh. Cut it tight, that helix is going to unwind in heat treat ..." and that kinda thing. That book-larnin' ain't all there is to the world.
 
I think SM is thinking of Gear Handbook by Dudley. The publisher was McGraw-Hill. I recently got a backup copy of Gear Handbook from Amazon for a reasonable price. Actually I misplaced my dog eared copy and freaked out. Its out of print, so that may be your only way to find one. Its got a lot of usefull info in it- its pre-cnc but not ancient turn of the century (the last century- not the current one) information.
 
Gleason also has training classes on gear making at the factory. you literally can train on theory and then actually make gears on modern machines.
.
many gear making machines have robot loaders and unloaders and make gears fast. incredibly fast.
 
I think SM is thinking of Gear Handbook by Dudley.
I actually meant this one :

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edit : that was interesting ! try this again ...

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well shit. Search "Dudley Handbook of Practical Gear Design and Manufacture"

I prefer the one with the blue cover, first edition. Less nonsense (fea ? on gears ? who is going to use that ? Lockheed ? If you work there you don't need this book), more practical stuff. But to each his own ...

Its out of print, so that may be your only way to find one. Its got a lot of usefull info in it- its pre-cnc but not ancient turn of the century (the last century- not the current one) information.
Yes, Gear Handbook is the Bible. But maybe for an intro, a little too much ? The other one is a little more of an overview and has more of the practical aspects, I thought. And cheaper :D

JohnnySolidworks said:
Products | Gleason

Gleason has some decent videos of the different machines they make - some have animations of how they actually cut in slow-motion.
Those are actually Pfauters. Gleason is a pretty smart company - they went public, then bought themselves back when they saw where the "investors" would have put them (out of business, like investors did to all the rest.) Then when Detroit dropped rear drive, they saw the future and went and bought theirselves a troubled parallel-axis gear machine company (or three). Smart guys. But they are sort of ruthless bastards, too. And no idea why they didn't buy Fellows. They could have made it work :(

DMF_TomB said:
Gleason also has training classes on gear making at the factory. you literally can train on theory and then actually make gears on modern machines.
.
many gear making machines have robot loaders and unloaders and make gears fast. incredibly fast.
Yeah, they've done that for centuries. Pretty expensive tho. The $100 book will give you a better overview, the Gleason School is more of a "train you to use this particular machine" place. ITW had a good gear training school and AGMA ran something second-rate (but better than nothing) for a while. Maybe they still do ?

About the "modern" schtick, gear cutting hasn't changed at all for thirty years. It's faster and easier but same old same old, hob or shaper cutter cuts teeth the exact same way. A guy who ran a 1913 Gould & Eberhardt would have no problem picking up the latest Liebherr hobber. Materials are better, machines are sturdier but the principles are exactly the same. Autoloaders were common in the seventies, by the way. I'd be interested to see a comparison between a 1975 Cleveland 1886 and a new Liebherr. Given equal cutters, I'd bet the Cleveland is just as fast.

Replacing the mechanical linkages with electronic so they could get rid of all the windup and backlash is probably the only real advance gear cutting has made in a hundred years. Otherwise a guy making parts for Henry Ford would feel right at home.
 
I found this on the internet from a compagnie nearby ...
Why do people have to lie ?

"The Bierens S-shape has become possible thanks to a new production methodology with a 5-axis free form milling pass ..."

Their part :

bierens-golden-solution-en.jpg


Early Citroen (origin of their logo)

Herringbone_double-helical_bevel_gears%2C_Citroens_patent_%28Autocar_Handbook%2C_Ninth_edition%29.jpg


1927 power transmission gears

Double-helical_bevel_gear_Citroen.jpg


Yeah, just became possible due to our modern 5-axis cnc machines ! As long as you don't count the stuff people were doing a hundred years ago ...
 
I agree
Nothing new Only the way to produce it is changed But the shape is a bit different It is more like a S not a V
These can only produced with 5 axis CNC There was never invented a conventional machine for that

On their old website they claimed they invented a sine shape profile Looking in to that I found a Chinese university to have "invented" also a sine shaped bevel gear
Now you don`t hear then mentioning a sine shape anywhere Perhaps a S shape is better or that university protested
Last year they were taken over by their neighbour Default Parallels Plesk Panel Page
They make the really big gears
But anyhow their information is solid AFAIK
 
These can only produced with 5 axis CNC There was never invented a conventional machine for that
Probably because there is no point to it. The contact pattern would be awful :D

They have made some really strange gearoid thingies in the past with conventional machines ... can you upload pdf's here ? I have a copy of Fellows Art of Shaping or whatever it's called, some of the examples in there are very unusual. And the gear books mentioned above had some real doozies, too. There was a guy in Los Angeles specializing in square and triuangular gears ages ago, all done on conventional machines. And a guy doing highly crowned, almost hemispheric parts, I totally screwed up and used them for a flex joint once, oops. Hookes coupling on one end, constant velocity on the other, live and learn. Dumb dumb dumb. Maples, Marples, something like that ? LA had all the weird shit.

They make the really big gears
Rexnord just shit on Falk, over 150 years experience, last place i know of in the US that could do huuuuge gears, as in 14 meter diameter ? Absolutely beautiful machines, experienced workforce, straight-up guys, all down the toilet because some banksters with the brains of a flea decided "Ooh, we can have those made in China ! for cheaper !

It's so discouraging :(

But anyhow their information is solid AFAIK
Seemed like they just cut and pasted some charts and graphs ... not sure why they bothered, if they are making huge parts they don't need internet attention. Either of the Dudley books is way more informative. And interesting, too.
 








 
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