OT vehicle "product advisor"

Yesterday my wife and I went to look at some used vehicles on a car lot. One young "product advisor" (salesman) showed us 3 vehicles, one which we took for a quick test drive. He used a number of soft sales tactics which was OK as he wasn't pushy, was polite and trying to make a sale. We weren't that interested but he used the line "give me a chance to get this vehicle for you at the price you would buy it". We told him that we needed to talk and were going to look at a couple of other vehicles anyway. He repeated his phrase and there was a possibility we would buy it if the price came down. The usual routine of the fake dickering between the sales manager and the car salesman started.

The vehicle was listed for about $ 23,000 dollars with 79,000 KM on the odometer. The sales manager knocked off a whopping $300. We were not impressed as the other vehicles we were going to look at (also at a dealership) had around 35,000 and 50,000 KM and were $2-3,000 dollars cheaper but were a ferry ride away (Vancouver Island) so less convenient. The black book price for this vehicle is around $16,000. We tried to politely excuse ourselves and the sales lines became more pressured. It quickly culminated in our now not so polite "product advisor" asking what he did wrong. We told him "nothing" which then equated to "why aren't you buying the vehicle" and then the clincher, that we hadn't been honest with him. He basically was having what I would call a tantrum.

I usually buy vehicles privately and not off any car lot let alone a dealership. Is this what I have to look forward to buying a used vehicle from a dealership? I don't mind using a "no BS, this is what I'm willing to pay for this vehicle" approach but it seems like there might be a downside to this as well. Any suggestions?


Dave

My .02 is just keep looking until you feel comfortable with the whole package including the experience.

"not honest with him" Heard the same line of BS from a vegas time share rep.

Told him that if he where just a little smarter he might have understood the irony of that statement.

I'd post my experience on "Angies List", send a copy to the General Manager of the dealership with a note saying "I'm going to share my experience with EVERY PERSON I COME IN CONTACT WITH, IF THEY WILL HOLD STILL LONG ENOUGH TO HEAR IT!"

My wife had this same type of experience at a local dealership in March. But it was worse...they had the keys to her car and wouldn't give them back to her when she tried to leave. Told her "You've wasted our time" among other things. I was at work, she called panic'd because they wouldn't give her keys back. Told her to call the cops and tell them they had stolen her car / keys. Apparently her starting to dial 911 produced her keys in quite a hurry. They were closed by the time I got there.....and it was probably a good thing.......

Thanks for the replies.

Matt,
Good advice, this is what I was intending on doing. He was so slick at the start and so slimy at the end it took me a little by surprise.

Mebfab,
A friend of mine had a similar line used on them at a timeshare seminar in Hawaii. They were the only one who didn't go to the front to sign up after the presentation. The line used on them was that they "weren't sincere".

Thruthefence,
Last night I was considering something like Angie's list or writing a letter with CC's to everyone I could think of. This is one business of many in a large corporation headed by a local multi-billionaire. I even though of creating a feedback form that looked like it might be associated with head office (ala secret shopper) and send copy them with other copies marked as going to various levels of head office. There are so many businesses they likely wouldn't dare to or couldn't find out if it was real or not. I was only a little annoyed and at the end it was almost humorous watching him try his lines. Like you suggest, I will tell everybody who cares to listen. This guy has our number and if he does a follow up call and is a ass then I will do more.

A few years ago, for the first time we bought a car (used) from a dealership and the saleswoman did the 4 square BS on a piece of paper. Long story short we got up to leave and the sales manager suddenly agreed to our offer. They made money, no hysterics and everyone happy. At the dealership we were at yesterday, if we did negotiate a lower price I could see the salesperson having something done to the car before we picked it up, he was so petty.

Any other ideas anyone?

Dave

After I read your post Tonytn36 I was stunned. Your story takes the cake. I know there are likely psychopaths selling cars but this is unbelievable. Your poor wife, but what if it had been your teenage daughter? Slimy a-holes.

Dave

The sales people are truly slimy..... but they know a good deal of human nature. It's a good thing that I am not fully human, that stuff doesn't work as well on me.

Had one tell me straight up that the truck I wanted did not exist, that it was not made, no way to buy one. I left, and before teh end of that day, bought one from another dealer, so much for THAT lie.

They ALWAYS , if you decline, tell you that:

1) you were not being honest

2) that you were not a serious buyer (since you didn't buy from them)

3) That you were wasting their time (despite the fact that you attempt to reasonably politely get away from them repeatedly)

All this is "social engineering". About the same thing as telling a prospective purchaser of high end audio stuff that "if you can't hear the difference between brand 'A' and anything else , you are simply not a brand 'A' customer, and should buy a lower end product with which no doubt you will be perfectly happy"....

They want you to feel obligated to them, or alternately to feel guilty, or not want to be "small" about the matter, etc, etc. In other words, to value the incidental "air vibrations" of the interaction higher then your actual wants or needs.

It has sometimes come down to "get out of my face, we are leaving, and if you try to stop us there will be a scene that will be painful and expensive for you".

In one case,I actually wanted the truck, which I did buy. But when I found out that it had only the stupid HP spare in it, I let the salespeople believe that I was willing to walk and even lose money on the deal (which I was not) unless they found me a real spare PDQ and included it in the deal. (they wanted to charge extra).

They caved. I got the spare, they swapped it off a recent model in the used lot, and virtually begged me to accept it, which I was of course perfectly willing to do (they didn't know that). I had NO guilt whatsoever about it, they were working at manipulating me the entire time, and it felt kinda good to do it right back to them, after THEY were "fully invested" in the deal.

The only thing to do is watch the show, and manipulate them right back, if they do have what you want. Nice to say, it can be harder to actually DO that.

JST, your 3 points if not your whole post should be a sticky. I knew that there was often a script they followed. You nailed it with the 3 points. I wish that I had read this before the dealership. Thanks for posting it.

Tonytn36, an afterthought, but did they ever find the bodies?

Dave

Dave

A few years ago there was a show that went across canada to buy a car, I think they did both new and used but I mostly remember new, they wanted to see how the experience varied between provinces, the "extra fees" and the tactics to sell you on more crap and so on, then end verdict was that in some provinces they will screw you with a bigger smile on their face.

I bought one car new off the lot in my lifetime. I went straight to the owner (took some research to find out who he was) and told him I would buy his product at $300.00 over his price (3400.) and he didn't have to do any pre-delivery detail or pay a salesman. He said he wanted his guys to do the pre-delivery inspection required by the manufacturer and the rest was all mine. I got a car almost right off the transport truck and paid less than anyone ever did for that car. I will never pay new price for a car, the markup is just ridiculous. There are a lot of nice vehicles out there at decent prices without the middleman's ( salesman's) overhead. Buy used cars.

Wow! That's discouraging! 2 of my last 3 used vehicle purchases were made at dealers, one was a new car dealership, the other an privately owned used car lot.

I did a little research on Kelley Blue Book before going to look at a Suburban that I found on the internet. I was quite surprised that they offered me a better deal than I expected right off the bat, including my trade-in. The vehicle was in great shape, they gave it a safety inspection sticker and filled the tank.

I bought my Tahoe at a used car lot that had been there for many years. No pressure, if you like the car, take it for a test drive. The price was fair, but it needed a brake job and minor things. They agreed and I picked up the vehicle a week later (the dealer was 300 miles from my home). Fast forward 2 years and 114,000 miles, I was in that town on business and my fuel pump failed. I didn't want to take it to the Chevy dealer and didn't know of any good independent shops. I called the used car dealer that I bought it from to ask their recommendation. They told me to sit tight and they would be over shortly to pick it up. They gave me a loaner at no charge, drained the fuel, removed the tank, replaced the pump, and refilled the tank--for $140! I couldn't believe it. If you're ever in the neighborhood of Pampa, Texas, go to Allison Used Cars.

In 1979 my partner and I had a few good clients and were making good money. Our accountant told us to buy company cars or we were going to give it all to the IRS. Partner bought a new VW Rabbit.

I went looking for something interesting for the same money. I saw a Mercedes sedan on a lot and went in and asked how much, salesman wouldn't tell me. Drive it, he says. I go out and fire it up, gas gauge on E. I tell the salesman, he says it has plenty of gas, drive it. I get about 4 blocks and it starts missing, I turn it around and it dies 2 blocks from the lot. I coast it to the curb, lock it up and walk back to the lot, toss the keys on the desk, tell the guy the car is out of gas up the street, and leave.

A week later I go to the BMW dealer looking for a used 1975 or 76 2002 Sports sedan. They did not have one but salesman said there is a 1976 530i just came in on a trade, not even cleaned up, it's full of gas, drive it and have it back before 6 tonight. I flog it around the twisty roads for a couple of hours, bring it back, and write a check for $7200.

Paul

I once bought a used vehicle from a "no hassle" car dealer. They kept saying they were a no hassle dealership. The price on the sticker is what you would pay. No negotiating would be permitted. I thought that was okay, because the vehicle I wanted was at a great price and test drove great.

Then I discovered that no hassle only applied to them. They hassled me to get me to finance the vehicle when I intended to pay cash. Then once they had my money, they hassled me by saying the vehicle wasn't ready and that I would need to come back. Never mind that I had test driven it an hour before and it was ready enough for me ... and that I drove three hours each way to get to the car dealership. But still, the price was really good and I really wanted the truck, so I came back a week later to get it. At some point in the proceeding week they had dropped something on the truck. Foot long dent and missing paint on the roof by the passenger door. They admitted it. And then they said that they were a "no hassle" dealership and that I could take it or leave it. No discount. No repair. No hassle. Take it damaged or get your money back and don't buy the vehicle.

What assholes. Polar Chevrolet in White Bear Lake, MN.

The truck did turn out great, however. 1999 Toyota Tacoma. Bought it with 12k miles on it. At 100k miles Toyota bought it back from me for 150% of blue book value. It seems they forgot to put rust preventer on the chassis. So I had a great truck 88k miles and five years AND made a thousand bucks.

My old mentor (deceased), like many of you, was a clever gentlelman. He would just make up his mind what he was going to give for vehicle and say, "this is the out-the-door price --- tags and fees included --- of what I will give and not a penny more." He would go to three dealers --- make this offer --- and wait for the phone to start ringing---he was very spedific and would tell each dealership salesman what he was looking at and the name of the other two dealers. The phone must have always rung. But here is the kicker---as soon as he signed the paper work and the car was his, he would take their dealership name off the newly bought vehicle. He simply said, "I will not be a free "add" for you. Of course, they were a little stunned and he really loved that part. They did not want to debate him on vehicles or any other issues because he was far superior.

If you can't find what you want privately I'd recommend shopping smaller car lots rather than dealerships. My theory is that the dealerships give their salesmen more training how to manipulate prospects, the smaller lots have less aggressive tactics (which you can usually see coming) plus you can more easily get right to the owner to deal. Sooner or later you'll run into a lot like Steve45 described - If you do, ask him to find you what you want at auction and bring it to the lot for you. I have one in my neighborhood who will do that for me, If he doesn't sell it to the requester at a good price for some reason, he cleans it up and puts it on his lot at a higher price. 3rd generation car business, the present owner's father was the chairman of the board at my bank, best place in the county to buy a car.

Watch out for 50/50 warantees however - That equals no warantee.

I bought a truck from a chevy dealer a while back. I was dealing with the truck manager. Once I decided I wanted it and we had a tentative price, I told him I had $6000 in cash to put down, and I wanted to put the rest on my platinum credit card. Later that day, he told me taking the credit card would cost him $300, and he only had $600 margin to put into the vehicle to make the deal. I told him if he'd take $500 off, I'd pay the whole amount in cash, and he accepted. Just an anecdote, might help you somehow.

Tonytn36 said:

Told her to call the cops and tell them they had stolen her car / keys. Apparently her starting to dial 911 produced her keys in quite a hurry. They were closed by the time I got there.....and it was probably a good thing.......

Click to expand...

I would have waited
Ralph

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I needed a quick refresher and its nice to know there are some decent dealerships out there. I'm telling as many people as I can and managed to tell a few people at work.

The best story today was from a woman. A dealership "lost" her drivers license for a little over an hour while the salesman tried to sell her a car. Coincidentally this was just after she told them she was going to leave and needed her drivers license back (why they had it I didn't ask). The best information was that if you show up with your wife they smell blood and descend like vultures.

Just about everyone had a negative story but one person did recommend a dealership, unfortunately wrong brand of dealership but maybe worth a visit anyway.

Thanks again,

Dave