Grizzly deals

Can anyone give me a tip if Grizzly will bargain or give discounts if you buy a lathe and mill at the same time with lots of tooling? Close to a 15k order.

Grizzly should rename their company, Almost Unuseable Equipment.

I did not think cheap chinese crap was allowed here.

I have no idea if they will give you a discount on their crap. I do know that for 15K you could instead buy a whole bunch of good equipment which would actually be worth owning. I'd call THAT a bargain!

Here is advice from someone who has purchased those green machines. Multiples...
Strongly consider your other options!
Deal on tooling... Good luck! Probably not.
Their 16" and larger lathes are ok. (At least mine is ok)
The 14" and smaller... STAY AWAY!
I was in a unique situation where I needed to get machines of a certain footprint in a short amount of time. I didn't feel that I had time to shop for used.
I picked up 2 1990's era Supermax lathes that are ok, much better than the small Griz.
If I had it to do over I would shop for something else. Almost anything else.
If you have 15K to spend you can get really nice stuff, not green.
I have seen some VERY nice 15-18" lathes for $7k, then go buy an Aloris tool post or other high quality unit, nice live center, nice drill chuck.

in before the lock

Why not,,,in before the lock !!!!!!!

and lets put the final nail in the coffin

"OP,check Harbor Freight out before you buy,,they got great deals on tooling too"

The nice thing about grizzly stuff is you can sell it to someone who doesnt have a clue, The older good stuff is not as recognizable as a big green rodent and they dont put out catalogs.

You can buy a real nice used lathe and Bridgeport for $15k. I bought a 13" 1954 Sheldon and 1969 Bridgeport J-head Series 1 for well less than $15k. Both in very good shape, $3100 for mill and $600 for lathe.

Installed 3-axis DRO, Power DrawBar, Servo Product X-power drive, TECO VDF on mill and BXA tool post on lathe. Purchased new vise, new chucks, new 5C collets, used R8 tooling and a lot of end mills, automatic boring/facing head, HSS and carbine inserts...still have way less than $15k in it. I am willing to bet they will still be in great shape long after I'm gone; plus keep their resale value.

Unless you are in a real hurry, purchase from a quality used equipment supplier and have it shipped to you. Does not cost that much to ship and you will be far more happier with it. They might even throw in some good quality tooling as well. Mine did!

Sheesh, you guys are harsh. I am just starting out my product development shop and these will be used for prototyping, not heavy production. They are the larger Grizzley machines. I really don't have time or energy to shop for used and risk getting a worn out machine. I'm not an expert on used equipment and don't have the start up funds for fancy new equipment.

sigmatero said:

Sheesh, you guys are harsh. I am just starting out my product development shop and these will be used for prototyping, not heavy production. They are the larger Grizzley machines. I really don't have time or energy to shop for used and risk getting a worn out machine. I'm not an expert on used equipment and don't have the start up funds for fancy new equipment.

Click to expand...

You are missing the point...Grizzly comes worn out, they are crappy machines. That is why I said a quality used machine dealer....I know of one I would not hesitate to purchase from sight unseen. Your budget is high and you can get into a much better class of machines and tooling...which is good for prototyping.

This is the equipment I use for my prototyping shop and it serves me well. I don't have to worry about holding reasonable tolerances and I don't have to worry about the stuff breaking down. They are built like a tank.

sigmatero said:

Sheesh, you guys are harsh. I am just starting out my product development shop and these will be used for prototyping, not heavy production. They are the larger Grizzley machines. I really don't have time or energy to shop for used and risk getting a worn out machine. I'm not an expert on used equipment and don't have the start up funds for fancy new equipment.

Click to expand...

That's kind of what I thought...
Although I wasn't "green" to machinery, I had been around many types for 20+ years, I just thought it would be easier to get new.
The 16" lathe I got is OK. I use it often, it is OK. The 14's tho.... Not good. Sloppy, weak, falling apart within 2 months of 15 hrs / wk use.
I understand that you don't have time, but make time to study some options.
You can buy a worn out WW2 machine for $600, or a very nice (like new) 1975-1990 16" for $7000
Huge range, but still under Griz and heavier, tighter machines.
JM .02

I suspect that if you think hobby class equipment will give you an advantage that your experience level is such that no equipment will be to your advantage.If you are the idea man, then get a machinist to partner with. Don't try to play the other man's game.

CraigB1960 said:

You are missing the point...Grizzly comes worn out, they are crappy machines.

Click to expand...

-I disagree.

Yes, the smaller, budget-priced stuff is not the greatest, but the larger machines are more than adequate. I bought a Taiwanese-made Grizzly clone of a Bridgeport, over ten years ago. "Clone" in that, from everything I've seen, it's a bolt-for-bolt copy.

I've been using it in my little custom shop very nearly daily, since I wired it up in early 2003, and it hasn't given me a single problem. I have had to do zero repairs, and haven't made so much as a single adjustment (other than, of course, tramming the head as needed.) There's currently .004" 'backlash' on the X dials, and .003 on the Y- which is pretty much right where it was when I bought it.

And I bought it for the same reason the OP states- I couldn't find a good used vertical mill locally, and buying one sight-unseen from the States and paying a small fortune to get it shipped up, in the hopes it wouldn't turn out to be a worn-out hunk of crap, wasn't really appealing.

Yes, I'd have preferred a new, genuine Bridgeport. At the time one was $17K plus shipping. I got this one for a quarter of that.

Doc.

I agree but disagree with the OP. If you look at something like this: Shop the South Bend FM-2S/1PH - Mill 9" x 42" 1PH at Grizzly.com It's probably a perfectly good Bridgeport clone. But in that range I'd still be more comfortable getting a mill from a "real" machine tool dealer. In Western Canada, for example, that would be something like this: http://www.thomasskinner.com/customer/thskso/specials/2013cat_243.pdf. We have one of these and it's perfectly fine. (those are Canadian $$ by the way so it's more like US$9K) And a place like Thomas Skinner would have tooling programs. I tend to agree with the harsh critics about the lathes though. An equivalent mid size good Taiwanese lathe seems to be US$15,000 minimum and a two minute perusal of Craiglist shows a fine looking Jet-1859 here in Vancouver for C$3K, and many more respectable lathes in Seattle. Find someone to act as a consultant on used equipment and you'll save a ton.

While you are right that buying new when you a new to a field is a really good idea, down in this price range there is just so much good used value out there and the new product is so sketchy that it's just not the same as say buying a production CNC machine.

To attempt to answer your first question about dickering:

It seems that in any situation it's best to do some homework to reliably bargain. IOW, figure what you want from Grizzly for $15K, if you so choose to be willing to buy there. Go to the store and verify that the machines look & feel like you expect them too. Allow a sales person to lead you, and gradually work with them filling up the order sheet to your specs. When it gets down to totals and closing, make your offer of what you expect to close the deal. Having done your homework, you know that if they laugh, or don't see it your way, you can walk out the door and make as good a deal for better machines and tooling package elsewhere.

But it does not sound like you have done any of this. You are hoping the machines perform like they look like they ought to from the catalog pictures, and you more or less stated you don't know what the other options are at the same price points. You are hoping that as a nice guy, they will be willing to knock some off, or add some tooling, even if you don't actually have any other options in mind & will pay full price anyway. That does not seem like a strong bargaining position.

On the quality issue, I tend to agree with Doc, but the problem is Grizzly's machines change a lot from year to year and often you will walk in and all the good machines will be BO. They have some decent looking mills, and some that don't look as good. I think in all cases, it's possible to do as well or better elsewhere, probably even from the high cost places like MSC. KBC will work to earn your dollar, some of their machines & tooling are on par with Grizzly, some better.

I think you are taking a big risk ordering mainland China (or heaven forbid India) sourced machines from anyone if you personally are not qualified to assess it. Lots is good. Much is barely adequate.

I've never bought a major machine from Grizzly, but in traveling back and forth to DC for construction work, sometimes stop in Williamsport to pick up "disposable" tools and machinery for the crew that has mostly been "adequate" specific jobs. Mortiser, various sanders, job site saws/bandsaw, fists full of router bits, etc, etc. So keep an eye on the machine tools there as well In the spring, import tooling seemed overpriced, and many of the mills were BO indefinitely. They do carry Aloris, and some other top brands but I did not get the sense it was priced better than elsewhere. You have to do your own checking on specific items.

smt

pm sent
Gary

Used assumes you are ready to buy someone elses problems. They aren't getting rid of it because it's a gem they can't live without. You had better know what you are getting into or your "great deal" will cost you months of hassles trying to get the machines fixed, restored, or repaired. Nothing like trying to find or make parts for some old machine. Great if you have other machines to do that with, very bad if you don't or want to actually make some money or product.

That said I would HIGHLY recommend following CraigB recommendation earlier and if you are not an EXPERIENCED used machine tool buyer you are probably buying old crap regardless of the name on it so you should find a honest (they exist, you just have to search) used machine tool dealer. Let them work out the bugs and give you a warranty.

For reference my local machinery dealer would have set you up with a Lagun FTV mill and Graziano SAG 14 lathe for $10k loaded with vises, tons of tooling all the accessories you need to get running. I know because I bought one and my friend bought the other and still didn't hit that price. They were perfect and you can ask anyone about the quality of those two machines. Grizzly makes nothing in that league. Very few others do either. Probably would have thrown in a RPC if you asked.

Don't be fooled. Used is usually crap if you don't know what you are looking at. Buy from a reputable dealer. Just my opinion.

What Jaxian said too!

Be careful of who you listen to, are they just crabbing because they not like a name, or are they enamored by a name?
I got the first Griz (the 16") because I didn't want some over-priced, over-hyped, clapped out south bend 9" that was in the machine shop in the belly of Noah's Ark!
I got the 14's because I expected them to be the same as the 16" (fair quality) but they are NOT.
if you want a machine to be part of you income and livelihood, you want something high quality. We simply don't know what we don't know... If you have not had a high quality machine you might not realize what good work should look like, or why you can't get the required surface finish or tolerance on tool steel or stainless with the little sloppy machine.

Jaxian said:

Used assumes you are ready to buy someone elses problems. They aren't getting rid of it because it's a gem they can't live without. You had better know what you are getting into or your "great deal" will cost you months of hassles trying to get the machines fixed, restored, or repaired. Nothing like trying to find or make parts for some old machine.

Click to expand...

These days, a lot of shops with older equipment are either switching to CNC machines or getting out of the business altogether. If you shop around there are bargains to be found on GOOD used equipment.