Thread: help with faceplate, few questions before i proceed.

very very old 10" leblond here, leblond doesnt even know when they made it but said sometime btwn 31-39 or so.
This one, like the 13's and 15's has the crazy rare 2 1/8-5 thread spindle.
knowing that i would most likely NEVER see a chuck or any tooling with this thread i decided to go ahead and make a few faceplates.
i knew the tapered thread was going to be a bitch for me, at least until i had a good chuck mounted, so got a friend to do it on his Haas cnc.
plates were a part of some die that they had laying around in the shop..2 pieces, already in my requested 8" diameter, full 1" thick, flat as hell and of very nice A2.
They turned the flange on the back round and threaded them for me.
I mounted them and faced to what i considered, by my standards, unbelievably tight results...boy i LOVE this machine so much more than my old SB's.
went nice and slow in back gears, 68 rpm, carriage locked, gibs adjusted a smidge tighter than usual, new kenametal RH carbide, plenty of coolant and only .003 per pass with a clean up of .001.
couldn't believe my eyes when upon initial indicator check i got almost no measurable runout at spindle and only .0002-.0004 at the outer diameter using my best starrett .0005 reading indicator on a pretty rigid set up mounted to the locked carriage.
checked it over and over cause i thought for sure this would be out at least 2 or 3 thou to begin with and i would fight it for a while.
fwiw, i know i should be using iron for this accessory but i am very gentle on the threads and no one else uses the machine. Also i will be wrapping the spindle with teflon tape since there is minimal thread engagement on the first 2 or 3 threads..due to the taper not being absolutely spot on.
another thing to consider is i never use the same chuck for long and am constantly changing out (very carefully and deliberately) so hopefully no real chance for the threads to gall and seize too bad.

i will be tapping the .45 holes for 1/2-20 on the other plate so i can use it with clamps for weird shape objects.

so before i start removing material to mount a chuck am i missing anything?
finish is pretty good, could be better but definitely acceptable to me, you can see the finish in the last pic.
anything else i should be checking for measurement wise?
or anything else to consider.

any advice is welcome here.

thanks everyone

Originally Posted by vanguard cycle

so before i start removing material to mount a chuck am i missing anything?

Looks good to go to me. Use the same patience and care for the next step to get a good 'spigot' fit into the back of the chuck, and - JM2CW - use only 4-jaw so you can accurately position the work instead of being limited to a less-controllable scroll, and you don't need 'adjust true' type stuff or even an especially expensive chuck. Two-piece top jaws are nice if you can budget 'em though.

Bill

Originally Posted by vanguard cycle

very very old 10" leblond here, leblond doesnt even know when they made it but said sometime btwn 31-39 or so.
This one, like the 13's and 15's has the crazy rare 2 1/8-5 thread spindle.
knowing that i would most likely NEVER see a chuck or any tooling with this thread(?) i decided to go ahead and make a few faceplates.
i knew the tapered thread was going to be a bitch for me, at least until i had a good chuck mounted, so got a friend to do it on his Haas cnc.

There are so many LeBlonds out there that not any of the 5TPI threaded spindles are "rare" or to my mind "crazy".

My 17" "modern" (nothin' close to "very, very old" 1942 model has the common 2 7/8-5, vastly easier to mount an orphaned chuck, backing plate or faceplate to this threaded spindle than to attempt the same thing with cam-lock or tapered spindle lock, gotta' scrounge crap to fit and bolt on your chuck for them.

Uh...... what "tapered thread?" Did Leblond tool up and sneak a new one in on me when I wasn't looking? 2 1/8-5 or 2 7/8-5 means what it says. Only 2 1/8, not 2 1/8 to 2 37/49 (or what ever) tapered-5.

Glad that you are properly fitting the old girl, uh...... young lady up, leading you to discover what a lot of us already know, a good and versatile choice for all round lathe work in an affordable package.

More pics....please

Bob

If you are worried about galling your spindle keep it clean and maybe a light smear of "never seize". Also don't store your chucks where chips can get into the threads from your turning ops.

Rick

thanks guys
and Bill, the chuck i am mounting (8" plain back 3 jaw) does have 2 piece jaws. the other plate will be tapped for fixtures and what not.
i have a nice 8" 4 jaw and semi nice 4" 3 jaw with my spindle threading. so glad to have more options now for holding things like those weird V shaped things i had to make last week.
as always your sage advice is much appreciated

spindle thread was absolutely tapered.
i mentioned it, in distrust of my measures, to my friend's shop that did the cnc threading. he called me after to verify that it was indeed tapered by .0250"
...note that i never gave him a measurement of taper amount but just told him it was tapered and he should check it with his better measuring tools and experienced eye.
also, sounds like you have a source for 2 1/8-5 tooling? i would love a link or info on that cause i have been searching and turning up rocks for months now to no avail at all.

as for the anti seize, i considered it for sure. we'll just see how easy these plates come off when its time to change soon.
and good call, i keep my chucks and various vises on a shelf away from chips and covered if grinding in the shop.

Originally Posted by vanguard cycle

the other plate will be tapped for fixtures and what not.

Suggestion: These odd spindle-threads - or at least 'not from the local candy store' threads - PLUS the substantial hunk of stock wanted to have a threaded hub for them, are cost, delay, and general PITA enough...

.. that you may wish to drill, tap and dowel-pin that plate not for DIRECT use, but rather to accept any of several simpler secondary sub-plates that can be drilled as regularly or oddly as wanted.

No hub and no spindle-nose threads on those, and you can do them in-house, not send off for CNC.

Just ignorant flat(tened) plates in different thicknesses, materials, configuration, etc. Marked on as to use(es), stashed for next need. Can even take bolt-on adjustable jaws or clamps. Dowel pins and shoulder-bolts do the do for repeatability.

Bill

really great idea, hadn't even considered it but your right considering how much of a pain it will be to acquire or make another one of these.
i took the first one off and mounted second to face, i will go ahead and make up a few 8" alum discs to do whatever with.

I fairly agree with the earlier sentiment that sticking with a four jaw is the way to go. That leaves you with only needing two actual spindle plates---one backplate for the 4-jaw and one faceplate for sub-fixtures as mentioned. Otherwise, if you are going with the "assortment" type of set-up with multiple workholding chucks, it may very well be worth it to have a tap made. Even a truly off-norm tap in that size should run maybe 300-350$. Then you can make a bunch of backplates with lathe cut undersized parallel threads and very accurately tap them to size. If your threads end up slightly off-axis once tapped (likely they will), it really won't matter. You will face and clean up the OD once fit to the spindle anyway. That's the other possibility. Personally, I think I like the faceplate that accepts sub-plates/fixtures and one independent four jaw the best. I don't really have anything against the multiple chuck approach, though. It has its place.

Originally Posted by Arthur.Marks

I fairly agree with the earlier sentiment that sticking with a four jaw is the way to go. That leaves you with only needing two actual spindle plates---one backplate for the 4-jaw and one faceplate for sub-fixtures as mentioned. Otherwise, if you are going with the "assortment" type of set-up with multiple workholding chucks, it may very well be worth it to have a tap made. Even a truly off-norm tap in that size should run maybe 300-350$. Then you can make a bunch of backplates with lathe cut undersized parallel threads and very accurately tap them to size.

Presuming the friend with the CNC rig saved the data, having another 2 or 3 made as a batch may be comparably affordable. And that might be enough for the lifetime of the machine.

I'm presuming, of course, that a point will come where something else takes its place, as Vanguard doesn't seem to be doing a lot of sitting still...

Bill

Quote: vanguard cycle "spindle thread was absolutely tapered".

Interesting. I did the work below for mine and and more, needless to say, it required examining the spindle nose thread closely. I thought for a moment that perhaps yours had the adapters for chucks etc. screwed off and on many times, wearing a slight, (0.025) taper but the spindle on mine is pretty hard. It did come from a school where the 3 jaw may never have been removed.

It would be interesting to see what LeBlond called your thread, because 2-1/8-5 with no additional info would be inaccurate, the taper should be included.

Boring then threading a new faceplate for the 2-7/8-5 spindle nose




Turning and threading a collet chuck for the 2-7/8" spindle nose




Threaded some other stuff too, including a dog plate, no taper.

Bob

Originally Posted by thermite

I'm presuming, of course, that a point will come where something else takes its place, as Vanguard doesn't seem to be doing a lot of sitting still...
Bill

i know that wasn't necessarily meant as a compliment but i took it as that and then some.
Machining is the first thing in my life career wise that has actually kept me immensely interested, fascinated, inspired and in awe.
so yeah, your absolutely right

Originally Posted by Robert Campbell Jr.

Quote: vanguard cycle "spindle thread was absolutely tapered".

Interesting. I did the work below for mine and and more, needless to say, it required examining the spindle nose thread closely. I thought for a moment that perhaps yours had the adapters for chucks etc. screwed off and on many times, wearing a slight, (0.025) taper but the spindle on mine is pretty hard. It did come from a school where the 3 jaw may never have been removed.


Bob

yeah Bob it was confusing to say the least. I was thinking the same if, considering this machines age, the spindle had been ground or just worn that much from some accessory with a shallow thread?