Help with spindle greases

I recently disassembled a BS surface grinder spindle. Bearings where gritty feeling and the grease is well past the 10yr span. While doing the spindle I might as well do the motor bearings. It is a direct drive unit.
Both sets of bearings cleaned up well and spin perfect. I’ve been researching and researching on greases. Amazed by all the different recommendations.
I have no problem spending a little on the grease to make me sleep better but what is sufficient. I’ve read from some well experienced people that mobile grease 28 or 32 could be used. I looked at grainger and they sell mobilegrease shc 28. Is that the same grease??? The shc is throwing me off. Kuber grease is only available ordering and I have a grainger right down the street. Would like to get up running now. Any help would be appreciated thanks guys!

Cadillac said:

Bearings where gritty feeling and the grease is well past the 10yr span.

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If they felt bad, they should be replaced. Price the new bearings and see if there is money left in your budget for grease. I can also assure you that the grease you are looking at is probably not what B&S would have used for 3,600 RPM grinder bearings.

How did you clean the bearings? They must be spotlessly clean if you are going to regrease. Maybe somebody here has a procedure for greasing B&S bearings. Most spindle bearing like that take a certain volume or specific weight of grease and are not just filled. If they are filled, they will probably run hot.
JR

Here is the military test of precision bearing grease.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a450746.pdf
Longest life is important and it is possible the better/best grease might give that.
I consider evaporation loss and hardening very important along with corrosion inhibiters and lubrication qualities.
The oil in a new grease packet is corrosion inhibiter. I like to wash that with a new batch of what ever cleaner. Fresh new towel wipe dry, dip in spindle oil then let set with a towel under and over to install the next day.
Never hard blow a new bearing the loose spinning will do much damage. Fill about ¼ to 1/3 spread that around with perhaps a tooth pick or plastic paddle. Clean room conditions with hands washed.Best not wearing shop wore garments..

I would choose a name brand that claimed precision bearing grease..

I see some in the test that use clay thickeners..don't like that for long life bearings....

I've got a B&S surface grinder from around 1907. Don't know if yours is that old, but mine has plain bearings with micarta thrust washers.

At the time I acquired the grinder, I did a bunch of reading on spindle bearing oil for it (oil not grease). Most of it I don't remember, but I can tell you that if you search this PM forum you'll find useful information as well as vintagemachinery.org (where you can find a copy of original owners/maintenance manuals depending on the vintage). I was able to download a manual rom a similarly-aged B&S from that site. My recollection is that the spindle oil specification was surprisingly thin. Like maybe mineral oil thinned with kerosene consistency (but don't quote me on that). I also recall that a number of the B&S plain bearing spindle grinders of that era had plaques affixed to the machines that indicated spindle oil recommendations. So Google "B&S Surface Grinder" images and look specifically at the label plates in the images. You'll find some useful info there.

Cadillac said:

I recently disassembled a BS surface grinder spindle. Bearings where gritty feeling and the grease is well past the 10yr span. While doing the spindle I might as well do the motor bearings. It is a direct drive unit.
Both sets of bearings cleaned up well and spin perfect. I’ve been researching and researching on greases. Amazed by all the different recommendations.
I have no problem spending a little on the grease to make me sleep better but what is sufficient. I’ve read from some well experienced people that mobile grease 28 or 32 could be used. I looked at grainger and they sell mobilegrease shc 28. Is that the same grease??? The shc is throwing me off. Kuber grease is only available ordering and I have a grainger right down the street. Would like to get up running now. Any help would be appreciated thanks guys!

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Mobil SHC 32 is clay thickened grease, as a mid-ground compromise between it and Kl-uber-expensive I might look for synthetic, non-clay based (lithium or polyurea) grease instead.
Clay thickener makes the bearings run more noisy, not sure how much it would actually show up on use.

Grainger has also this one:
Electric motor bearing grease – Mobil Polyrex™ EM | Mobil™
or:
MOBIL Mobilith SHC 1,Synthetic Grease,13.4oz - 4ZF49'|'122112 - Grainger

Good find Matti...
Going for a lower priced grease I agree to consider those the better Mobile products. IMHO..even though waiting a few day for the better may be good..
With any, the half speed (or so) jog start will make bearings last longer.even a double slow start is worth the time.. IMHO.

Started using this some time ago.

Dow Corning Molykote BG 2� High Performance Synthetic Grease 4�� g Cartridge

My problem with greases is there is so many variables,manufacturers,and then different recommendations. I went to a electric motor place in town figuring they would be knowledgeable and maybe have some or a reference. Told the guy about rebuilding the spindle and motor bearings on the grinder. He looked like he never heard of one. I asked him about kluber products didn’t know. Asked about grades no.1,1.5,and 2. All he had to say was I have these two kinds of grease which were a mystik syn. Red color #2. Then some shell brand same thing #2. I basically said thanks and walked out.
I’ve read literature from barden nsk and others which have their own brand or recommendations.
Reason why is I’ve read Richard King state he’s been using mobile grease 28 and newer version32 since he can remember and never any problems. I’ll pay for the kluber if necessary but they can’t have the whole market? What is it racing horse loads or what???
My BS has 204ss and h bearings which are a little pricey. I figured flushing and a relube first. Worst case I replace but give a try.
As for cleaning I sandblasted and they look clean. Lol no I soaked in turpentine for a day. Then I soaked in kerosene and diesel for a day. Then I used some carb cleaner fill a small container and let sit. I did that twice and second time the solution was clean. I then sprayed each bearing with a half can of cleaner then I sprayed some of my best thin lube all over and placed in zip lock bag till Assy.
As for packing I’ve read all over the map. 10-100%. All manufactures say 15-30%. I’ve read people putting a 100 depending on spindle cavity size. They say run break in and extra will disperse??? My spindle housing could probably fit a tube in there. Personally I will probably fill 30% and leave it.
I have many lube sales people stop in and I have probably ever brand of #2 multipurpose grease. Some with moly some lithium synthetics. I’ve got lubriplate Assy lube and #1 engine Assy lube. So many and yet not the right one.

I don't know if you already found the Kluber guides ie:
https://www.allworldmachinery.com/images/uploads/files/KLUBER_LUBRICATION_SPECIALTY.pdf
https://www.klueber.com/ecomaXL/files/Lubrication_of_rolling_bearings_tips_and_advice.pdf

Packing ratio depends on DN value (linear velocity=size*speed)
Slow speed bearings can be fully packed. Everything doesn't need NBU-15 and 15% packing even if it might sound like that if you read just practical machinist forums.

Cadillac said:

I’ll pay for the kluber if necessary but they can’t have the whole market? What is it racing horse loads or what???

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No. Just experience, specialization into a niche, and dedication to serving that niche. Why are you fighting a globally established reputation?

Look at the quantities. Costly Kluber is commonly ordered in tiny one-job-only, even ONE THIRD job, syringes because uber-precision bearings don't WANT great gobs of grease, and ALL greases go stale in the pail or on the shelf. Chemistry thing, not external contamination.

Mobil, Shell, other "petro majors" ship more in pound-plus cartridges, 5-Gal pails, 30-gal and larger DRUMS and the like. Good enough products, many of those for average needs. Kluber is just better yet for specialized needs.

Kluber - if nothing else - has one of the longest proven service lifetimes before degradation to damaging.

Not their only claim to "goodness", either. The most demanding service on-planet is basically ALL they address. AND NOT F-150 wheel bearings.

Take advantage of the durability if nothing else and just order a syringe. You should have it quickly enough.

And, Oh, BTW - JR is almost certainly correct that you REALLY should fit new bearings as well if this grinder is to be of best and longest use to you.

If you aren't going to check that out? May as well use ignorant Vaseline.

THEN the bearings will prove they need replaced, and "Real Soon, Now!

seems a bargain..
426-221,NBU 15 5g,kluber isolflex,kluber grease

Kluber Asonic HQ 72-12 4g Cartridge: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Larger quantities of grease may collect moisture or air born grits.
Smaller batches are best

I have seen the speed charts and I don’t believe my 3500 motor is in the fast category. I haven’t done the math but others have stated the same with a lot more experience on sub. I’ve been reading on greases for the last four days.

Thanks michiganbuck I bit the bullet and ordered. It’ll be here tomorrow. Most I saw were in the thirties. Thanks to everyone with responses even though I ended going with kluber anyways.

MattiJ said:

Mobil SHC 32 is clay thickened grease, as a mid-ground compromise between it and Kl-uber-expensive I might look for synthetic, non-clay based (lithium or polyurea) grease instead.
Clay thickener makes the bearings run more noisy, not sure how much it would actually show up on use.

Grainger has also this one:
Electric motor bearing grease – Mobil Polyrex™ EM | Mobil™
or:
MOBIL Mobilith SHC 1,Synthetic Grease,13.4oz - 4ZF49'|'122112 - Grainger

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Matti, I think Polyrex has to large a viscosity difference between 40 and 100C - I like to see that around 5 times or less. Not 9.

Cadillac said:

I have seen the speed charts and I don’t believe my 3500 motor is in the fast category. I haven’t done the math but others have stated the same with a lot more experience on sub. I’ve been reading on greases for the last four days.

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Four DAYS? You need about three more weeks, then, and we'll probably be in agreement!



I'm as much a cheapskate as the next Pilgrim on lube spend, but.. I also

A) hate doing tedious s**t (disassembling,cleanng, and repacking bearings counts) twice that I can do but once, and

B) happen to also run some rather expensive bearings (including two "Precise" grinders) that I'd surely want the longest possible life from - most especially as they sit IDLE for so damned long between uses.



NB: No, 3600 RPM isn't demanding at all. Kluber services spindles run at high multiples of that. 17 thousand RPM for the Precise spindle, and even that's far outrun by lots of stuff these days. Not all call for the same grease, of course.

OTOH, if you can pack with a nine-year no-degradation grease and actually safely operate for a few years more? The Kluber purchase premium comes out cheaper than first appears.

Bigger, busier "revenue" shop making money by wearing production machinery out in profitable use?

THEY can afford a repack/new bearing planned service cycle, may not need a run-longer lube.

2CW

Cadillac said:

I have seen the speed charts and I don’t believe my 3500 motor is in the fast category. I haven’t done the math but others have stated the same with a lot more experience on sub. I’ve been reading on greases for the last four days.

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Not close to fast. Do not underpack as that will toast the bearings absent enough speed to create suction. If you over-pack bearings they'll get hot and you can either run them in to kick out excess or clean and refill. If you underpack you won't know that something is wrong until they're toast. I service quite a bit of critical stuff when it comes to lubrication and I am happy with some SKF greases particularly for router spindles where I get more than double the bearing life compared with other greases.

AlexO said:

Matti, I think Polyrex has to large a viscosity difference between 40 and 100C - I like to see that around 5 times or less. Not 9.

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Agreed, even if 3600rpm spindle bearings typically run rather cool compared to lots of other things.

michiganbuck said:

seems a bargain..
426-221,NBU 15 5g,kluber isolflex,kluber grease

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New-to-me source, good pricing! Thanks! Side panel has the Isoflex in larger cartridges, too. Not that I need those, here.

Kluber Asonic HQ 72-12 4g Cartridge: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

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"only nine left"? Amazon? Hoors! Could be stale stock "remaindered"?

Larger quantities of grease may collect moisture or air born grits.
Smaller batches are best

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Even cigarette smoke particulates are "grit" to some uber-precision bearings. WE cannot easily detect that. Bearings can do.

Many - if not MOST - greases (basically an exotic soap as "carrier" and an ordinary oil as the actual lubricant..) also degrade and/or separate over time even if hermetically sealed. Chemical activity WITHIN the grease, and exacerbated if not kept in roughly human-friendly year-round temperature ranges.

"Oh, but I've had (XXX) grease for 20 years and it still looks, feels, and smells like NEW!"

Yeah? Maybe so.

But will it still PERFORM like new? And if so, for how much longer?

False economy to stash grease-class lubricants against inflation.

As with milk, "fresh" is generally best for a grease!

My BS grinder bearings were old and in less than great condition, but no budget for new ones. I cleaned them well and packed with Kluber NCA-15. In hindsight the much cheaper Chevron SRI would probably have been as good or better a choice, but the grinder works fine, gives good surface finishes and shouldn't need service for a long while.

MattiJ said:

Agreed, even if 3600rpm spindle bearings typically run rather cool compared to lots of other things.

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Good point !