Newbie to cnc

jack123529 · Jan 15, 2014

Hello everyone, i just want to introduce myself and thank the admins for letting me join the forum

also i could use some help. I was browsing the forum and i could'nt find a fadal section, are these machines dead? we just bought one at the workshop and im supposed to use it, but i have no experience at all with cnc machines, im the designer at the company, i use solidworks and recently started using solidcam hoping to be able to gcode parts the right way.

the machine is a FADAL VMC 3016 with a 88HS control, it does'nt have a floppy drive only a rs232 port but since its a 3 phase powered machine and we currently dont have the electrical instalation, we havent powered it yet. i read the manuals and now i have an idea on how to power it up and load some tools and home it but thats it, im a little worried about the control since ive been reading it doesnt have much memory capacity and i will probably have to drip feed the program in to it, is this a bad idea?

can someone shine some light on me? any help would be apreciated, also english is not my native language so i apologize for my lack in writing skills

hologrind · Jan 15, 2014

Jack,
Fadal has been out of business for about 10 years or so. I am still able to get support as we have 5 of them on site. (Only 1 in our shop) We have 5 axis vmc 4020's. We often drip feed and have never had a problem. You can still program on the pc too if you have a multi-thread processor, however, we usually load the whole program if our controller can handle it.
They are fairly light duty machines but have served us well.
Good luck from an "old timer".

jack123529 · Jan 15, 2014

thanks for the answer.

JRIowa · Jan 15, 2014

The Fadal name is gone. They got bought out by G&L, who got bough out by Thyssenkrup, who sold out to MAG, who just got bought by the "Fives Group" in France. I upgraded the memory in ours several years ago Great machines if you do the PMs.
JR

jack123529 · Jan 15, 2014

ok cool, so if i use dnc i should be ok, i had this crazy idea, i was thinking if its possible to connect a laptop via the rs232 port and control the machine using mach3 with a touchscreen laptop. one of these http://www.small-laptops.com/images/l/panasonic-toughbook-74.jpg or maybe try something like this Fadal Touch Screen - YouTube

toolsteel · Jan 15, 2014

For simple 6 or 8 tool jobs you should be able to load the program into memory...we do quite a few of our parts that way....If you use a cam package I agree you may need to drip feed. We have had poor results when we tried to treat a Fadal like you would a Mazak or Mori..... meaning dont expect to be able to take big roughing passes in tougher steels, and dont use high speed machining strategies, the "look ahead" and processing speed isnt good enough. We also had some issues when we feed above around 60IPM, the machine doesnt "corner" real well. Otherwise they are a pretty friendly introduction to CNC.

michiganbuck · Jan 15, 2014

Good simple youtube
CENTROID CNC Control User Training Video: CNC Millling Machine Training. - YouTube

jack123529 · Jan 15, 2014

allright i guess i will have to "tweak" the Gcode i get from my cam program but i wont know untill i plug the machine and do some tests, anyway thanks for all the help guys as soon as i start running the machine i'll let you know if icrashed it or something, also on a side note if i can make myself useful in the forum let me know

if you work with solid models look me up at grabcad https://grabcad.com/andres-230

jack123529 · Jan 15, 2014

michiganbuck said:
Good simple youtube
CENTROID CNC Control User Training Video: CNC Millling Machine Training. - YouTube

thanks, this is very helpful :cheers:

JRIowa · Jan 15, 2014

Here's where I got the memory upgrades and converted one machine to rigid tap.
FadalCNC.com | CNC Replacement Parts | Fadal CNC Machines
JR

michiganbuck · Jan 15, 2014

G code
CNC PROGRAMMING G-Code basics #1 - YouTube

jack123529 · Jan 15, 2014

jack123529 · Jan 15, 2014

some pix of the machine, i cant wait to start using it! :willy_nilly:

Bobw · Jan 15, 2014

ok cool, so if i use dnc i should be ok, i had this crazy idea, i was thinking if its possible to connect a laptop via the rs232 port and control the machine using mach3 with a touchscreen laptop. one of these http://www.small-laptops.com/images/...ughbook-74.jpg or maybe try something like this

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself....

toolsteel said:
For simple 6 or 8 tool jobs you should be able to load the program into memory...we do quite a few of our parts that way....If you use a cam package I agree you may need to drip feed.

I've got one Fadal with the absolute bare minimum of memory, 32k I think it is, and it can hold 98% of everything I need to do. The other Fadal I have is maxed for the software and board it
has, 512k I think and that takes of all but the .1%.

Using a Cam package or finger banging at the control doesn't change the fact that 'G1' takes up the same amount of memory either way. With a CAM package you may get longer trailing
decimals. 1.5013... but your editor can filter that down, or you can change your post to only go to 3 decimals or choose your geometry and step overs/downs to use the least amount of
characters possible, also skip that line segment crap, and filter to create arcs. In general its not a problem for 95% of things that need to be done... there is also subs and loops that can cut down tremendously on the amount of code needed. R's instead of IJK's can save quite a bit also.

Calmotion sells a USB interface for about $600 that uses a flash drive. FadalCNC sells it. That will pretty much get you any amount of memory you could possible need.

We have had poor results when we tried to treat a Fadal like you would a Mazak or Mori..... meaning dont expect to be able to take big roughing passes in tougher steels, and dont use high speed machining strategies, the "look ahead" and processing speed isnt good enough. We also had some issues when we feed above around 60IPM, the machine doesnt "corner" real well. Otherwise they are a pretty friendly introduction to CNC.

I like people like you... "my Fadal won't take a cut, it can't rough, it won't make a good arc"... then you dump it for cheap, I buy it, give her some love, a few hours, a few bucks in parts
and she's able to use all of her horsepower and as accurate as a factory Fadal could be.

*the fine print* All standard Fadal disclaimers apply: The tool changes will put you to sleep, it won't interpolate a hole at 100ipm,
the rapids are moderately snooze inducing, it won't accelerate at 2Gs, it will break occasionally (but be cheap and easy to fix), its the Fisher Price
of machine tools. A lot of bang for the buck if you maintain it.

jack123529 · May 19, 2014

Hello everyone, remember me?

i think the machine is cursed or something because we had a lot of trouble to get the 3 phase electric conection at the shop and when we finally got it connected today it wont turn on!!

we got it connected and when i flip the switch the light bulb in the machine turns on but not the machine itself, i pressed the green button for more than 5 seconds but nothing, and i checked the boards pannel and it has power, but the 88hs control does not turn on, not even the green light in the front that says power. i followed the standard procedure for power up but its not working. does anyone have this fadal model? vmc3016

maybe we did not ground it properly, the electrician used a 8 awg cable conecting it to the green cable in the fuse box but it still wont work, he checked the panel in the back and only the top part gets power, i think its a transformer or something like that, the 3 main fuses are good any ideas on how to fix this? please help.

jack123529 · May 19, 2014

matt_isserstedt · May 19, 2014

So you are getting fans etc, to come on, when you throw the disconnect?

There is a "seal" contact somewhere that starts up other things when you press the magic green button. That needs to be checked. The manuals are all freeware online, I think the higher numbered manuals (Maintenance?) have the wiring diagrams in them.

Also, going from memory, the very large transformer (its shown in pic3 above) is multi-tap on all three legs to get the proper secondary voltage. So you need to measure incoming voltage accurately with a good meter like a Fluke and then setup the taps per the manual. I do not know what happens if you error grossly on the incoming voltage (as in apply 480vac when 230vac was the former setup).....

jack123529 · May 19, 2014

matt_isserstedt said:
So you are getting fans etc, to come on, when you throw the disconnect?

There is a "seal" contact somewhere that starts up other things when you press the magic green button. That needs to be checked. The manuals are all freeware online, I think the higher numbered manuals (Maintenance?) have the wiring diagrams in them.

Also, going from memory, the very large transformer (its shown in pic3 above) is multi-tap on all three legs to get the proper secondary voltage. So you need to measure incoming voltage accurately with a good meter like a Fluke and then setup the taps per the manual. I do not know what happens if you error grossly on the incoming voltage (as in apply 480vac when 230vac was the former setup).....

Yup the fans turn on and a green led inside the 88hs control. Not the power bulb just some random led. And a lot of red leds inside the case with all the axis boards on it. Ill check the wiring myself acording to the manuals. Altough im not sure what to look for exactly. The input voltage if im not mistaken read 130 volts per line. Its a 3 phase setup so i guess ill start from there. Thanks for the comment!

matt_isserstedt · May 19, 2014

130vac phase to phase with a 3 phase input sounds like a beeeeg problem in any machine tool I've ever owned unless its a single phase control transformer secondary.

machtool · May 20, 2014

Matt.

He didn't say phase to phase, just that it was 130 volts per line. I'm guessing he is measuring phase to ground. Which should put him at 230v p/p.

Regards Phil.

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