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Hopefully not OT- please recco a decent starter welding setup for AL Total noob

Long Tom

Stainless
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Location
Fiddlefart, Oregon
I'm buying an aluminum boat and have always wanted to learn to weld anyway so I'm thinkin' maybe it's time.... can you guys give me a general sense of what I need to get going?

I'd like to be able to weld steel and aluminum. NOT heavy, thick stuff. NOT for hire, strictly for fun. And I don't want to spend a lot of money getting setting up.

I know this'll quickly devolve into recommendations for giant pro used setups I can buy at government auction then rebuild using surplus Eastern Bloc parts procured from the dark web. :) This is not what I want. I want compact, functional, economical and will run off my shop 220, etc. LATER, I can upgrade to "whatever". For now I want an idea of where to START.

As a machinist I don't lack for scraps and drops of steel and aluminum to play around with.

Thanks guys.
 
you don't say what you expect to be welding. 1/2 or .020..... do you want to learn to tig (higher learning curve), mig (lower learning curve), o/a (a prerequisite in my opinion)
how does the boat fit into this? i have friends with aluminum boats and none of them weld
 
I bought one of the Lincoln complete tig setups 20 years ago, and they still sell a similar model.

lacks the grunt of a big old power supply, but will weld modest alu pretty easily
 
The Miller Econotig is the starting machine for hobby guys. The low end is not less than 30A so you can't run a bead down the side of a Coke can.
 
I have a 2016 AHP AlphaTig 200x 200 and a bottle of Argon. I could not be happier with it and recommend it as a starter set-up. It's capable of running 110v or 220v and either AC or DC.

I've used it for steel and aluminum, stick and TIG.

Very competitively priced for a home gamer, relative to capable but expensive commercial machines.

Also have a Lincoln wire-feed 110 MIG gun, which is light but great in that it runs on 110v...but not set-up for aluminum.
 
Yeah what process are we talking here? I bought a Dynasty 200DX when they were still bright eyed and bushy tailed and it has been an absolutely fantastic machine.
 
for a general multi use but useful welder, I'd stick with a self contained 250 amp miller dedicated Mig. Ability to weld multiple materials, easy to use,, easy to sell if you upgrade.

If you want to weld heavy stuff get a cheap stick welder..... if you want to get something harder to learn, get a tig. My opinion and 17 dollars buys coffee at starbucks.....your mileage may vary.
 
Hello Tom,
I have a Garcia Passoa 47. This is an French built aluminum expedition sailboat. Like you I got into TIG welding in expectation of doing work on the boat and building things for it. Wow!!! Did I ever!!! I will give you my recommendations for gear and stuff based on my many years with the boat and my experiences fabricating things for it and maintaining it.

Welder: Get an Inverter TIG machine with AT LEAST 200 amp capability. I have a Miller Dynasty 200 DX. It is a Stellar machine, and welds aluminum well above it's weight class. Because you are a machinist I GUARANTEE you that buying some cheap, imported piece of crap will have you tearing your hair out, and eventually you will end up with something like a Dynasty. They are light, and run off 220 VAC single phase at 30 amps or less. You can usually get this at your marina dock box.

You will need a GOOD torch, preferably water cooled, but air cooled will do for starters. Weld Craft or CK International have nice units. I use 1/8" 1.5% Cerium doped electrodes almost without exception for almost all jobs. You can use them at low current just fine, and for aluminum they work great. With an inverter TIG, with a square wave and variable frequency you will be using the electrodes pointed. THe old school balled electrodes can work, but the newer machines are great with pointed electrodes. You will want a Sharpie Type electrode grinder. I have found Arc Zone to be a good supplier of electrodes and accessories. For Miller welders I recommend Indiana Oxygen Corporation. They have an Ebay store and have great prices. As a starter for sharpening electrodes, you can use a clean belt sander with maybe 80 grit Zirconium paper, and hold the electrode in a drill. Angle it against the belt (pointing down stream, as it were) and turn with the drill to get a nice point. A nice way to get a bunch of crap off the electrode after dipping in the puddle. I recommend AGAINST breaking an electrode!! They tend to shatter and can get spiral fractures up the rod that cause grief during welding.

For weld gas, use 100% argon. I recommend using gas lenses all the time for aluminum. It really helps keep the gas flow laminar. You typically use around 15 CFH for a 1/8" electrode in a gas lens. For a TON of valuable information on aluminum welding, see Jody's website "weldingtipsandtricks.com". He also posts on YouTube under the same name. the website 6061.com ( and youtube videos) are interesting also.

Get a good variable darkness full face electronic welding helmet. This is a very personal decision. I have several made by Miller, but there are other great brands. Be sure it can go to a minimum shade of 8. I would prefer 7 for small current stainless welding. Being an old fart, I use internal magnifiers in the helmet which help a lot. they just slide into rails inside the helmet. Do not get a fixed shade helmet- it will drive you batty in no time.

For filler metal use 5356 only on marine aluminum. Proper boat building alloys are 5086 and 5083, and 5356 works well with them. It also works well with 6061, and allows anodizing with no color change at the weld. Aluminum Distributing Incorporated (ADI Metal Distributes Metal for Marine and Industrial Use since 1958-Fort Lauderdale, Florida) and Mcmaster can supply 5086 and 5083 in various shapes. For underwater work use only 5086 0r 5083. Above water, 6061 is ok. If you have to repair a casting (spinnaker pole, gooseneck, etc) try to get some 4943 filler rod (made by Hobart). It is an awesome filler metal for casting work. You will probably need to preheat.

For heavy material, you can preheat to get it to work well with 200 amps. Going to lower frequencies (30-50 HZ) is helpful for really heavy joints. Adding some Helium to the argon mix (25% or so) makes a huge difference also).

I could go on all afternoon, but pity has stayed my hand. Please feel free to contact me with any questions you might have. I am sure that there will be howls of outrage from people about my recommendations, but they have worked exceedingly well for me for many years. In time, perhaps you will have better suggestions. But if you have an aluminum boat, and you are a machinist, you ARE going to need a GOOD welder you can take to the boat. The Dynasty 200 or 280 (the newer units) would never let you down.

Best wishes!!
Michael
 
I would agree you want an inverter machine of around 200 amps minimum.

the real choice is- do you go for the absolute lowest price, and buy a chinese machine, with dubious parts and service availability, but a great price, or do you spend about double, and get a brand name american machine.

I weld for a living, all my machines right now are Millers.
They are well made, parts are available almost everywhere, and they have good resale value.
They are made in america, with some imported subassemblies.

Similar things for Lincoln.

Esab is the other big contender- a multinational, most of which will be imported, but great quality.

Then, you have the ultra cheap chinese stuff. Many people take that risk, and are happy, especially if they dont use the machines full time. But its a crap shoot.
HTP is another option- a single small company in the midwest imports machines from a variety of countries, mostly eastern europe and italy. Reasonable prices, but no local parts or service.

Econotigs have not been made for some time, but used ones are out there.
Lots of good used american machines as well- big heavy transformer style lincolns and millers would be a good choice, many other orphan brands exist, going back to 1960s models. If they work, they work fine, but good luck finding parts for oddball ancient tig machines.
 
I have the HTP Invertig 221, mentioned by Ries above. I was strictly a Miller guy until I got the HTP. It is very well made in Italy, and has a boatload of features that you have to pay extra for in the Miller machines (via memory-card expansion). Current goes as low as I want, and up to 220A with a very good duty-cycle and the price was right, especially compared to Miller.
 
Esab is the other big contender- a multinational, most of which will be imported, but great quality.

Do people really not realize that Esab has a manufacturing facility in South Carolina? I'd wager that a lot of machines on the secondary market like the Heliarc 250's were made there.

I know that they have had and likely continue to have some machines which are either imported (mostly from European countries) and badge engineered or a mixture of import sourced parts, but still. People who act like Esab is even in the same class as the Chinese bullshit welders *really* need to take a look under the hood of one of them.

OP, Pay now or pay later. TIG is going to be way better for what you're wanting to do. At a prior job I repaired literally hundreds of worn keel plates, worn out rivet holes, tears and other leaks in a fleet of aluminum rental canoes. You can MIG aluminum but probably not cheaply or easily. I think Ferretlegger has some good advise up above. Personally, after a few upgrades I've got an older Miller Dynasty 300 with a water cooled torch which can do more and consumes considerably less power than a comparable transformer machine like the Synchrowaves. Probably not going to upgrade anytime soon unless I find a screaming deal on a Dynasty 350.
 
Hi Tom,
I wanted to correct a small error and make a few comments about the merits of TIG versus MIG for your probable needs.

The correction is that the torch manufacturer I was referring to is C K Worldwide, not C K International. Sorry for the brain fart.

With respect to the TIG versus MIG issue:
Most aluminum boats are constructed by using MIG welders. For constructing a boat this makes sense. MIG is quite a bit faster than TIG, and the heavy plates and well prepared seams make it easy to weld (mostly-ha ha- it IS a boat!!). The operating costs are probably lower, and a well trained MIG welder can lay down beads which look quite a bit like TIG welds. However, it is quite hard to learn to MIG weld aluminum at a high level, in spite of claims to the contrary. I have a Millermatic 350P MIG welder with the AlumaPro gun- by any standard a stellar aluminum welding MIG setup. I use it mostly for tacking and very heavy welds, I am embarrassed to say. I find that I can get superior results with my much less powerful Miller Dynasty 200, even in heavy stuff with a little preheat and helium.

For repair and building stuff for your boat, I think you will find that the TIG technique will work much better for you. If you have to do any real serious underwater repairs (at least in the early days), you might want to hire a professional in any case, as just globbing on some blobs of aluminum instead of doing a "machinist" level quality weld job may end up with you swimming for your life someday. Getting to that level of competence will take some time, lots of reading, watching videos, and PRACTICE, Practice, PRACTICE. I am sure, as a craftsman, you realize this and it will be a comfortable (although occasionally frustrating), path to follow. You will become very experienced at grinding electrodes, as you will probably stick the electrode into the weld puddle many times.

With TIG you have very good control of the welding process. With MIG, the wire comes squirting out, and it is GOING to GO somewhere, like it or not. With TIG, you see the puddle all the time (hopefully...) and the welding speed is 8 to 10 times slower (approximately). For an old fart like me this makes TIG much more comfortable, as I have real troubles seeing the puddle with MIG, and the heavy gun, the speed, and arthritis makes precision placement harder. Also, something that is not apparent until you suffer from it is that 5356 filler metal makes a ton of smut when MIG welding, and none at all when TIG welding. Smut is a black or white powdery substance which deposits all over the weld joint and surrounding areas. At first, there is a tendency to ascribe this smut as some sort of contamination, and bad welding gas or dirty metal can, in fact, make nasty smut-like crap on the joint. But in reality, smut is nanoparticles of Magnesium and Aluminum oxide, which occur during the spray arc process as the filler metal is vaporized and escapes the surrounding shield gas to form these tiny particles of oxide. The smut can appear black because light entering the layer of nano particles is bounced around inside the film and absorbed and does not reflect- hence the dark appearance. If you are a great MIG welder, using pulsed MIG and getting exactly the right torch angle and gas flow can greatly reduce smut, but it will always be lurking. It is kind of a pain in the ass to completely remove, although it is not tightly bound. It does tend to fill any pore, however microscopic, and a wire brush usually doesn't get it all. As I understand it, the real reason that 5356 is so smut producing, and the usual filler metal for 6061 aluminum, 4043, does not, is that 5356 has Magnesium as an essential ingredient (hence the good match with marine grade 5000 series aluminum, which also have Magnesium as a primary alloying element). 4043 doe not have much magnesium, and MIG welds of 6061 aluminum with 4043 filler often look almost TIG like and shiny. In any case, do not use 4043 for marine welding.

I am always happy to chat about any of this stuff. Just ask, and I will babble! As usual, the advice is worth what you paid for it, and YMMV.

All the best,
Michael
 








 
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