Just had a shop press in new bearings for my 4x6 horizontal/vertical band saw. I had them replaced because it was leaking gear oil at the drive wheel side of the gear box. There is no spring type rubber seal. Looks like the sealed bearing (6202Z) is supposed to be the seal. The old timer that did this for me said he wouldn't even mess with gear lube and take a chance on leaks again. He suggested just packing the gear box with lithium grease. He's been a machinist for 40+ years and rebuilds Bridgeport mills. He said lithium grease is what he uses on all the machines he rebuilds. I picked up this bandsaw at a garage sale for $25 so I'm not too worried about screwing up the brass gear if grease is not the proper lube to use. I just don't want it to leak any more. This is just a home/hobby tool (I'm tired of using a portable band saw and getting crooked cuts). Will it be ok with the lithium grease?
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Horizontal bandsaw grease instead of gear oil
- Thread starter Kaliona
- Start date
- Replies 28
- Views 10,069
karl
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2005
It may work just fine but doing something wrong for forty years doesn't make it correct.
Karl
Karl
So you're saying he is wrong? That's why I'm asking about the lithium grease here on this forum. . .for other opinions. I've heard of others using grease instead of gear oil successfully, but probably a shade tree mechanic like me, and not production shop cutting all day every day.
FredC
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2010
- Location
- Dewees Texas
Each lubricant is designed for a specific type of application. If the machinist never sees his work come back maybe there is some overlap in lubricants application or maybe his customers throw the machine away the second time it goes out. Not having watched this guy for fourty years, we have no way of knowing which it is. If I was just going to substitute something for the correct gear oil, I might try a heavier oil like corn head grease from an agriculture supplier.
Sealed bearings are generally designed to seal their own grease inside. They're not typically used as an oil seal for an oil filled gear box. I don't suppose there is any means of fitting an oil seal in there, and using non-sealed bearings that run in the gearbox lube is there? Just wondering if someone half-assed it in the past because the seal surface is damaged.
I have used NLGI-0 lithium grease in gear boxes that aren't really able to retain seals. Its about the consistency of pudding. No guarantee it will work in your application though.
I have used NLGI-0 lithium grease in gear boxes that aren't really able to retain seals. Its about the consistency of pudding. No guarantee it will work in your application though.
The corn head grease that FredC mentions is a NLGI-0 grease. I think many if not all sold as corn head grease are a polyurea type. It is made for gearboxes that can run hot enough rubber seals deteriorate rapidly. I have used it in several different gearboxes that have lost their seals. It will weep oil in some situations, but it won't run out and puddle on the floor.
Pete Deal
Titanium
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2007
- Location
- Morgantown, WV
I did this myself. I have a Wellsaw model 8 that I rebuilt the gearbox on. It did not seem real well sealed so I put some NLGI-0 grease in it-so far so good. I got the idea from some tank mixers that we use at work that have similar gearboxes that they fill with this type grease.
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I've heard about that corn head grease. I'm going to clean out the gear box and fill with 90 or 140wt GL4 gear oil. If it still leaks I'm going to give the corn head grease a shot. Anyone know if corn head grease is ok to use with brass gears?
dkmc
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2002
CV joint grease is also a zero weight grease.
Get it at the autoparts store.....
Get it at the autoparts store.....
johansen
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Location
- silverdale wa
A friend gave me some gear motors just today (20:1 ratio, worm wheel was 2 inch diameter, worm gear was about 3/4" diameter, two start), I pulled one apart, then put it back together after realizing i shouldn't f with it. It had brown oil about the thickness of honey. (the honey you buy at grocery stores, not real honey the thickness of maybe slightly warm tar...)
anyhow, I would expect a rubber sealed bearing to hold such an oil back for a very long time. anyhow, reason i brought this up is because i've never stumbled across an oil this thick before. i have a couple other worm gears but they were lubricated with something similar to the 80w-90 gear old found in vehicle transmissions. who knows, maybe it wasn't the original. (4 inch diameter worm wheel, 40:1 ratio, worm gear was about 1.5 inch diameter, single start.)
For a heavily loaded spur gear of dubious quality, a high viscosity worm gear oil is probably what you want.
anyhow, I would expect a rubber sealed bearing to hold such an oil back for a very long time. anyhow, reason i brought this up is because i've never stumbled across an oil this thick before. i have a couple other worm gears but they were lubricated with something similar to the 80w-90 gear old found in vehicle transmissions. who knows, maybe it wasn't the original. (4 inch diameter worm wheel, 40:1 ratio, worm gear was about 1.5 inch diameter, single start.)
For a heavily loaded spur gear of dubious quality, a high viscosity worm gear oil is probably what you want.
APD
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
The good thing about grease is that it stays where you put it.
The bad thing about grease is that it stays where you put it.
I've opened up gear boxes and found the grease all slung out to the sides of the box, and the moving parts all dry and rusted.
The bad thing about grease is that it stays where you put it.
I've opened up gear boxes and found the grease all slung out to the sides of the box, and the moving parts all dry and rusted.
John Garner
Titanium
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Location
- south SF Bay area, California
Kaliona --
Filling a leaking gearbox with grease is an old, old make-it-work trick, and it usually works well enough. But the thickness of the grease is probably a lot more important than the thickener (strictly speaking, "lithium grease" is slang for a grease thickened with either a "lithium soap" or "lithium complex" thickener.)
The right grease thickness for your application will depend somewhat on the ambient temperature. In Barstow or Needles, a National Lubricating Grease Institute (NLGI) #0 or #1 grease will probably do, but if you're at the top end of a ski lift in the middle of winter, a #00 or #0 will be better.
The CV-Joint Grease that dkmc suggested may be a good deal easier to find locally than corn-head grease.
John
Filling a leaking gearbox with grease is an old, old make-it-work trick, and it usually works well enough. But the thickness of the grease is probably a lot more important than the thickener (strictly speaking, "lithium grease" is slang for a grease thickened with either a "lithium soap" or "lithium complex" thickener.)
The right grease thickness for your application will depend somewhat on the ambient temperature. In Barstow or Needles, a National Lubricating Grease Institute (NLGI) #0 or #1 grease will probably do, but if you're at the top end of a ski lift in the middle of winter, a #00 or #0 will be better.
The CV-Joint Grease that dkmc suggested may be a good deal easier to find locally than corn-head grease.
John
Forestgnome
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2008
- Location
- Californeeeah
On the bad side of the grease "fix", I have a loader that the previous owner had fixed this way. He put grease in the final drive instead of oil. Unfortunately someone had installed a thrust washer on the wrong side of a thrust bearing, and the rollers dislodged. Instead of falling to the bottom of the gearcase like they would with oil, the grease carried them into the gears, chipping and breaking teeth on the bull gear. Very expensive! The bandsaw is probably an okay application.
EPAIII
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2003
- Location
- Beaumont, TX, USA
I think your point is that grease does NOT stay where you put it. You put it on the gear teeth and the wiping action of the gears as they mesh pushes it aside. This happens on a continuous basis as the gears turn. As you say, the grease may stay inside the gear box, but it does not stay on the gear teeth, where it is really needed. That is why gear boxes are filled with oil to a level where at least one gear is continuously dipping into that pool of lubricant.
I think there will be a lot more wear on those gears with grease unless you apply fresh grease every time you use it. I would figure out a way to seal the oil in.
I think there will be a lot more wear on those gears with grease unless you apply fresh grease every time you use it. I would figure out a way to seal the oil in.
SAG 180
Titanium
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2007
- Location
- Cairns, Qld, Australia
Another runny grease is steering box lube, a self levelling grease of NLGI 00 thickness. I'm assuming self levelling means it settles when not in use, at least for my milling machine's right angle gearbox it flings a decent amount everywhere from around the spindle taper on starting after it has sat for a day or so.
A NLGI 0 grease will work fine, its common on a lot of car axles too, especially 4WD ones. The CV joint greases have a lot of high pressure additives that would really work well in a worm gear box! It won't get flung out and stick just to the sides like most greases will, its more than runny enough to flow, think not peanut butter, more akin to a thick maple or golden syrup. Stuffs runny enough to drain out of a gearbox through the drain plug in just a couple of hours. Rollers and other odd bits will sink in it just fine!
JRIowa
Diamond
- Joined
- May 27, 2003
- Location
- Marshalltown, Iowa, USA
If your saw has brass gears, don't use automotive lubricants. That includes 80/90 or 80/140 oils or CV grease. All have EP additives that will pit brass (covered many times)
What does your manual say to use? Most of those import saw use a semi-fluid grease similar to this:
Super S Cotton Picker Spindle Grease - For Life Out Here
JR
What does your manual say to use? Most of those import saw use a semi-fluid grease similar to this:
Super S Cotton Picker Spindle Grease - For Life Out Here
JR
I worked with some of the old school and they were adamant that I was wrong when I told them to put the lock nut on first then the full nut. Even when I explained the theory. 2 days later one admitted that was probably why an engine had blown up!
Oil will maintain the lubrication film. Grease will work out of the worm so it becomes starved of lubrication. I would use oil. That said I have used sealed pre-greased bearings with rubber seals in an oil filled gear box and the grease went funny and the bearings failed within hours. Be careful.
SteveF
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2004
- Location
- central NC
News flash - some people can easily be idiots for well over 40 years. If you ask the people who say "I just do this and never had a problem", you'll find most of those people service the machine and never look inside or even see it again. My buddy and I visited the small shop of a guy just like that who also "rebuilt" Bridgeports. After we left we agreed that this guy was just cleaning, putting some flaking marks on the ways, repainting and calling it a "rebuild". Too bad for those who bought his machines.
No one ever screwed up their machine because they read and followed the manual. Look around, there's a copy out there somewhere.
Steve