HORSEPOWER What have we become? I feel old, dumb, and inadequate.

dkmc · Oct 9, 2015

I do not keep up with this scene.....but stumbled onto it the other day. I feel very humbled by the accomplishments of these old geezers. (Quickly becoming an old geezer myself).
They make it look TOO easy and day-to-day, 'matter of fact'.

We're not playing with stock blocks from the big three anymore, we're building what we think up in our heads....from scratch. Maybe from "billet"....
I left off before CNC came into the "speed shop".....how timed have changed!

Check the prices and cubic inches!
Drag Racing Engines - Truck Pull Engines - Sonny's Racing Engines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyhQrf_V174

Brad Anderson: From a Bridgeport in a garage to this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIkmxUFjrVs

partsproduction · Oct 9, 2015

Heh heh, that "Billet" thing gets me, but even large companies are turning it into the language of the times by using that in advertising. I cringe when I see gun manufacturers who definitely know better calling their products, machined from bar stock, as billet.
One fellow I know always corrects it when the word "Motor" is used for an engine, but that is another one that has long since become synonymous. When every Tom Dick and Harry calls it a motor it becomes a motor. The old guy in the clip seems determined to say it the way I was taught. He is a very likable fellow.
I suspect that a lot of large machine parts, like wheels, may indeed be made from billet form, I know Boeing makes lots of parts from sawn billet stock.

But then I don't hold myself up as the epitome of proper English.

DocsMachine · Oct 9, 2015

Yup! Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?

I've been watching BAE for a couple years now, ever since an article in one of the magazines did a nice in-depth look at one of his mountain motors.

The fact is, even the "modern" Top Fuel engine is based off of 1950's technology and layout. There's just so much displacement you can get from a fixed deck height and fixed bore-to-bore distance. These guys stretched the block to allow for a wider spacing, which in turn allows for a larger piston, plus added a taller deck,and so on.

And on top of that, there was a whole array of internal changes, from straightforward stuff like raising the cam to clear the far larger crank, to completely redesigning the oiling galleries, to direct the oil where it needs to go (cam and crank) and out of where it's not needed (in volume- such as the rockers.)

Plus lots of little details, like sealing the valve covers and oil passage covers with O-rings, rather than gaskets, for both better sealing and faster/easier removal and replacements.

Really, despite the fact I'm a gearhead too, it's actually the machinework that gets me more than the actual HP or race results. I just get a huge kick out of the fact that we can, today, mill an entirely new engine block, from scratch, with what is basically off-the-shelf software and readily available machines and tooling. I just find that extremely cool.

Doc.

metalmaster10 · Oct 9, 2015

Yep, Sonny's is serious in the drag circuit... Really serious!

This group is some of the top in "street" stuff, they work hard to make lots of their cars look stock (or close) on the outside, but 2,000+ hp under hood street legal.
!Nelson Racing Engines - Extreme Horsepower Twin Turbo Engines, Supercharged Engines, LSX Engines
Watch some of their NRETV videos, or just search Nelson racing engines on youtube.
You quickly see that these guys don't just bold on aftermarket heads and cam anymore!
Good times!

Graham Gott · Oct 9, 2015

I've been away from the drag racing scene for about 20 years. When I was in high school I went to a bunch of the IHRA national events with Pro Modified and mountain-motor Pro Stock. At that time, the limit (by rule) was 706 cubic inches in Pro Mod (with nitrous) and 815 in Pro Stock. I recently picked up a drag racing magazine (free on the counter at Summit Racing Equipment) and man was I shocked! Things have come a very long way in a relatively short time. The technology going into these HUGE engines is really impressive. They're a long way from the cast aluminum stuff that was state of the art when I last paid attention.

Rstewart · Oct 9, 2015

Yeah, lots of money and technology being thrown at this sport! I live 5 miles from a Engine, Blower, and Head builder for the Pro Mod teams.

It is a super crazy competitive market, but If you've got an edge you can Name Your Price!

moonlight machine · Oct 9, 2015

completely redesigning the oiling galleries, to direct the oil where it needs to go (cam and crank) and out of where it's not needed (in volume- such as the rockers.)
Doc.

Actually the rocker / valve springs are flooded with oil to keep the springs cool. This is one of the things NASCAR engine builders do to make an old fashioned pushrod engine run at 9,000 RPM for hours on end. They actually route oil to spray nozzles aimed at the springs.

Scottl · Oct 9, 2015

We may look back at the old days with nostalgia but modern technology has radically changed not only racing but ordinary street cars. Some of the performance/luxury cars of today could embarrass many of the old muscle cars in a throttle roll-on from cruising speed.

KilrB · Oct 9, 2015

Scottl said:
We may look back at the old days with nostalgia but modern technology has radically changed not only racing but ordinary street cars. Some of the performance/luxury cars of today could embarrass many of the old muscle cars in a throttle roll-on from cruising speed.

Unplug their computer and see how fast they'll go then ...

CarbideBob · Oct 9, 2015

Oh my, $91,000 for a boat motor,.. and if you have a larger one with trips... :eek:

There is maybe a legitimate complaint that cubic dollars have taken over motorsports.
A game maybe best played at top levels by billionaires, drug dealers, and oil shieks which has taken out some of the average "Joe Dirt " type guys.

The older muscle cars made 400HP and drove like, well not so nice.
Now you can buy 700+ HP off the showroom floor with a ride better than a old Cadillac and handing that makes old Porsches blush.

Time marches on.
Compare a Honda CB-750 to today's bikes, Or a Yamaha SRX-440 to today's standard sleds.
Both of which I loved and thought OMG fast but they sure seem dated now.
Bob
.

DocsMachine · Oct 9, 2015

Scottl said:
We may look back at the old days with nostalgia but modern technology has radically changed not only racing but ordinary street cars. Some of the performance/luxury cars of today could embarrass many of the old muscle cars in a throttle roll-on from cruising speed.

-Yep. I used to have a '69 Dodge Charger with a 383. Not an RT or anything, but it was still a 383 4-barrel from the near-peak of the Horsepower Wars. I never had the car much above 100 MPH, simply because it was old and worn out when I had it, and the 1969 Dodge suspension and drum brakes were not exactly state of the art- even in '69.

But man, when you went 90 MPH, it felt like 90 MPH!

A few years later, I had occasion to rent a car for a trip up to the big city. It was a Mercury Marquis 4-door, I have no idea what engine it had. But it could do 90 easily. I found myself doing 90 without realizing it.

Yeah, my Dodge was quicker, but the Mercury was faster, more stable, quieter, had a smoother ride, and stopped way quicker. And it wasn't even a "performance" car.

I recently did a full rebuild of the front suspension of a '72 Cutlass, using upgraded modern components (polyurethane bushings, improved geometry spindles and A-arms, faster ratio steering, etc.) And even after all that, while it handles a lot better, I'd bet a mid-90s Ford Taurus will still outhandle, outsteer and outstop it.

Doc.

oldster · Oct 9, 2015

Good Lord! I am way too old for this :-)
I bailed out of the scene back in the late '50s. I enjoyed all of it and had an absolute blast, but decided to concentrate on other stuff.
Ti got really expensive (before the sponsors came along), and trophies simply took up too much room. Finally, after one of my moves, I tossed them all out.

This has been a revelation, and much enjoyed by this 80 year old.

Lee (the saw guy)

Miguels244 · Oct 9, 2015

All it takes is cubic dollars.

metalmaster10 · Oct 9, 2015

I used to have a Trans Am, 2000 model year, WS-6 pkg all stock.
When that car came out in '98 I still thought the Ferrari testarossa was the bad @$$ ( I'm sure Miami vice played a part in that) but still, it was a Ferrari, and I have always been a Ferrari lover. The listed 1/4 mile time for a testarossa is 13.5 sec.
The fastest time I ran on a legit track, with the time slip to prove it, in my stock T/A with street tires was 13.46, my average was about 13.60
That T/A was an impressive street car. It could easily exceed the grip offered by any street tire on any public street... And it only made half the rated HP of something like a charger hellcat or Caddi CTS-V (it was also half their price, and only 1/6 the price of a Testarossa.
Times are very different today. The last decade has seen a lot of development in reliable street power!

Limy Sami · Oct 9, 2015

Okay I know I'm an oddball, and while I appeciate whats behind it, I don't ''get'' all this horsepower on the street mularky, sure I like a quickish car or bike, but I'd far sooner have handling and braking.

I've only every driven 9 vehicles with over 100HP ;-3 of which were tractors, 1 360 track hoe, 1 dozer, 1 off road dump truck, and 3 cars - DB5 Aston Martin, 1979 Porsche 911 and a 1973 Toyota Celica.

As far as road going cars and light trucks go, I've never felt wanting for any more than <> 80 HP.

FWIW The one I liked the most was the Muir Hill 141 tractor. - with the Perkins engine - much nicer than the Ford.

P.S. and that's without all the HP junkies / speed merchants who come tear assing past me, .......only to be the next car in front of me at the lights.

motion guru · Oct 9, 2015

Modern design tools and machine tools allow for some amazing results even with what is essentially one-off type production.

Back in the day, this kind of thing was impossible so you made do with OEM parts sometimes from the junk yard and a little creativity. I bought a rusty broken down '49 chevy pickup for $400 when I was 19 and took about 3 years to turn it into a truck that could get into the low 13's in the quarter mile at what was then "Seattle International Raceway" near where I grew up. It easily topped 125 mph but it was scary as hell at that speed. A rolled '79 trans-am donated its front clip and another truck donated a 350cu-in engine with T400 tranny which was combined with a Pontiac 3.42 posi set up that together mustered 400+ hp at the rear wheels according to the dyne that I blew a big chunk of 1 paycheck on one long Saturday.

This is what it looked like in about 1985 . . .

I have since owned an '87 Buick Grand National that was pretty quick and now settle for a '14 Duramax 2500HD which is far quicker than any truck should be.

I still have an old truck habit, but tend to stay with making power the old fashioned way . . .

An old GMC 270 that makes just shy of 200 HP - compared to the OP's referenced engines far cheaper on the $$/HP ratio and a lot of fun to drive with the A833 OD tranny behind it with 3.72 posi out back.

Tonytn36 · Oct 9, 2015

Nothing else like a good 'ol straight-6 for torque out of the hole.....

Been many, many, many a dump truck made with a 290 (chevy) or 300 (ford) straight 6 as the power plant.

Newman109 · Oct 9, 2015

The engines being run in drag racing have always fascinated me. It's almost incredible how the crews are able to completely strip an engine, replace rings, bearings, and other needed parts burned up in the previous run in under an hour. At the same time, other crew members are replacing tires, brakes, the clutch and packing parachutes. Its like a symphony of mechanics.

It's expensive, too, yet they do it over and over again at each racing meet.

CalG · Oct 9, 2015

These kinds of "facts" help in establishing a perspective.
Modern Drag racing facts...... | race-deZert

Only 540 turns of the crank shaft......

It ain't all noise!

Big B · Oct 9, 2015

Oil galleries. Is that where you go to look at oil paintings of oil spills?

I think the term is "oil galleys" unless my dad taught me wrong all those years ago.

HORSEPOWER What have we become? I feel old, dumb, and inadequate.

Diamond

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