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Your favourite tooling company ?

ian3846

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Location
Australia, Gladstone
Hi guys

Just wondering which brand of tools you prefer and why?

Im asking this because when i started at my current place of employment everthing was mitsubishi which i dont like found them to be slow and unreliable. When we changed bosses everthing went to sandvik (good tooling and have a soulition for most things and great service 2 days turn around on most things ) now im tending to lean towards iscar I find them to out perform the sandvik in just about everyway. But i have noticed there inserts are prone to thermal craking and there high feed cutters have very thin inserts which makes me nervious but having said they seem to work fine. Oh and iscars deliver time is not the best.

Whats your thoughts and what do you like dislike about brands of tooling?
 
I look forward to the answers here. :)
Come on guys, one line answers seem fine to me. Big, small who do ya like?
Let's see where the chips fall.

To the OP:
I don't mean to step on your thread, feel free to trash me if needed.
I'm a salesman and need to be bashed in the face once a day.

Mit's has had problems due to mother nature not being nice to them recently which crippled their production capability. This has caused a lot of problems.
Sandvik has always been good, maybe a bit pricey but top notch stuff.
Iscar, well if you are having problems with thermal cracking you need a different grade.

All these guys are on the top of the game (no Kennametal, I'm disappointed :().

A good local guy along help from a good factory tech rep is what makes this stuff run.

Test what will they give you, provide as much feedback to the manufacture as you can, cry very, very loud when you are unhappy.
The last point is the most important.

Please, please, let us (speaking as an insert maker) know it is not working to your expectations. Too many people do not speak up when a slight change to your inserts may help a bunch.
Bitch, tell us the tool from XYZ seems better, most carbide companies will step up to the plate, we all hate to see somebody outrun us.
Even if you have nothing from XYZ but want more from your tooling ask for something else to try.
Also make sure to say that you won't pay for it if it does not work as expected. We will bend over for this, never pay for a test tool that does not make you money. You provide us feedback, this is invaluable.

I make tons of stuff where I think, "maybe this or that would work better".
Unless I get feedback from the customer I have learned that many don't want to be bothered. This makes me hesitant in many cases to upset the apple cart.

Buy from the guy who helps you out the most.

Bob
 
(no Kennametal, I'm disappointed ).

Kennametal is a brand that i have not had much to do with although i recently did some bisaloy 450 with a Kennametal combination tool ( drill champher) and seemd to go pretty well. Andi seem to remember a 125mm face mill with the hex inserts i liked that too :D
 
Sandvik has always been good, maybe a bit pricey but top notch stuff.

Funny thing is, I cannot think of a reason I'd ever use anything Sandvik ever again.
Their turning inserts are outperformed by Iscar, Mits and Kenna
Their Insert drills are outperformed by Iscar and even Toolmex ( likely Korloy)
Their brazed drills are outperformed by Mitsubishi and Titex ( tough Titex has now discontinued them)
Their milling inserts are outperformed by Stellram
Their threading and grooving tools are all proprietary and outperformed by Iscar, Mits and Kenna.
Their solid carbide drills won't hold a candle to Guhring or Titex.

All of them cheaper - sometimes by a huge margin - than Sandvik.

Go ahead, ask me how much money I've wasted on Sandvik to come to the conclusion that I'll never call them again!
 
I've been very happy with both Iscar and Ingersoll, both of which as I understand are sub-brands of the same company (Walter?) Ingersoll in particular for drilling and milling inserts.
Iscar makes a line of turning inserts with two coating types (we used to call them "peanut butter cups") that shine for turning 41xx steels.

I used to think Tool-Flo only made oilfield threading inserts, but we recently bought some 60 deg. stand-ups from them, as well as some top-notch inserts for small internal grooving. They're awesome.
 
I don`t think think there is one answer.
Different manufacturers have their own strong points.
I used to use Iscar parting inserts,along came Ceratizit and hammered them on tool life and initial cost.
Mits used to be not bad at parting and grooving.They have never been good at delivery.
Currently running a Korloy insert on a milling job which some big names have trialled on but Korloy is outperforming them by a long way.
We run a lot of insert drills.Sandvik bodies last the longest.
Kennametal are average,prices are very good.
 
Sandvik is the most popular brand in my area, so I use some of their inserts as to bring some of the other brands in sometimes costs more. But I still use I think 5 brands. I do plan to stock up on Mit's US735 inserts soon, probably will have to get a bunch shipped from the US. I'm currently using Sandvik's 1125 grade for a few things, and its an awesome grade, but the few shapes I'm using don't have a chip breaker I like for SS, where as the not quite as tough US735 chips much better. The parting inserts in the 1125 have been amazing in SS though.

That's what I've usually found very annoying, you find one grade that does well, try a different size, same shape, same chip breaker, get horrible results and less tool life, can be better or worse changing chip breaker, etc. With so much being CNC now, its hard to find inserts that still do well manually with the lower SFM. Some only start to run good over 400-500SFM. Hard to do that in SS with chips coming at you. And some just plain suck no matter what, why they make them I don't know.

Right now I'm using some CCMT's in CA6515 from Kyocera, low cost, reasonable life in SS so far, better than some 2015's I tried, actually at half the cost of most others I don't think anyone doubles the life... I generally loved 2025 grade in CNMG's and I still use it a fair bit, tried in a DCMT, and got poor life.

Got some Korloy for the sharp plastic/al inserts CCGT's and such.

A few other oddball things for grooving. Some Internal Tool, some Micro 100.

OSG primarily for taps as they're the most available local, some endmills as well.

For a while I was bringing in more tooling from the US, but its not nearly as worth it anymore.

Drills I still use a lot of PTD cobalts screw machine lengths. Still haven't looked at what do use that would be economical yet higher performance to use in the VMC. I know what to expect from cobalt drilling SS, no real clue with carbide, always worried it'll chip the edge and then its done, and the few I checked get pricey fast. $3.00 vs $60, I'll wait a few more minutes...
 
Any opinions on Widia ?
They are easily available from a local to us source
and perform well.

I have some Widia U drills.They`re ok.Also have some big ball nose inserted cutters of theirs.
Only problem I have is identifying their part numbers,but they have a very helpful guy in the UK office.
 
i'm kinda partial to iscar and hanita for some reason...

and isn't widia just an old dead trademark name revived by kennametal to capitalize on the fact that the term "widia" is commonly used in many languages to mean tugsten carbide?
 
SECO, Sandvik, and MariTool

I really like the support I get from my SECO rep. I like Sandvik because they usually have something that will help with a mill/turn issue. MariTool because you can't beat the quality, and the price is good too.
I would probably like ISCAR, but the local tool rep is an A$$. IIRC, Ingersoll is owned by ISCAR.

Chazsani
 
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Mitsubishi, Hitachi, NS Tool, OSG, Guhring, Emuge, Data Flute, Destiny Tool, Greenleaf... just depends on the type of work, but each of these companies carries a great quality product of one form or another.

I love Mits inserts, small drills and AJX cutters. I could say the same of Hitachi's ASR and their line of solid carbide is some of the best hard milling stuff on the market. NS Tool is in the same category IMO. I've been away from the aerospace world long enough that I can't recommend anything based on new technology (less than 8 years) but I talk to enough people still there who can and do.
 
I would probably like ISCAR, but the local tool rep is an A$$. IIRC, Ingersoll is owned by ISCAR.

Chazsani

Have you tried another rep? A great thing about Iscar is that so many reps sell it. I think I have 5 or 6 choices plus MSC and Carbid Depot etc. to buy from. Anything that's not a hot mover seems to ship from the same Texas location anyway.
 
I have tried many different tools from many manufactures, here is what works well for me. LMT Fette, and, or Dapra solid carbide holders for insertable ball inserts. The inserts are interchangeable and the Dapra work slightly better in many instances. The Dapra has a buy 3 boxs of inserts and get a free holder, or half price on carbide shank, this is hard to beat. When it comes to solid carbide tooling, there are many I use. Mitsubishi is top notch, after the flooding the delivery is fine, OSG is also a favorite, I use a ton of NS tooling as well and their hard cut balls will outrun the Mits and OSG. For rib cutting it's OSG hands down. For "high feed" style insertable tooling, on the smaller machines here we use all Hitachi, and the bigger machines we use all Dijet.. these guys also make a great high feed tool for a smaller machine but we have so much invested with Hitachi we probably won't change. Dijet also makes some fantastic solid ball endmills that produce an unbelievable surface finish on mold steels, their selection is not as good as OSG or Mits. If your a Hitachi solid carbide fan, try Union Tool, it will compete with them at a fraction of the cost.. Iscar has been brought up several times, and I would say that their tooling has been by far the worst I have ever used.. Cutter runout, cutting dia way off, inserts sitting at different heights, etc.. not consistant, and their solid tooling I won't even consider using. I have many hours of hardmilling tests and keep all the endmills and results to look back on.
 
+1 on LM Fette indexable balls.

Union Tool also makes a great range of micro-type tooling, we use a lot of their micro (50<μm) drills. No experience with their end mills outside the 1mm range though.

I've had some interesting results with Iscar as well. Their turning inserts are ok, I just prefer others in terms of tool life, finish and price. Their inserted hi-feed mills --in my experience-- have been totally unpredictable in terms of insert life. They're fast, but for how long is anyone's guess. Not something I want running in my machines.

Threadmills... it's Emuge all the way. They're lineup of aluminum milling carbide is probably some of the best on the market but pricey.

And, so far the Imco Omega-6's have proved to be a formidable replacement for the OSG in our HSK-E32 spindles.... been very impressed.
 
I agree completely on mitsubishi being great. Most people having problems with them are getting incorrect speed and feed info. This being said, my favorite is Mountain Top Sharpening. I am slightly biased, since this is my business. We take the basket case solid carbide endmills and turn them into something that will run like a scalded dog. The endmill in the video below was a sgs 1.00 5 flute. after modifications and recoating, this is what we get. I would be feeding faster, but this endmill has to last through the whole run. Reconditioning cost? $60.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ8zFopI41I00.
 
I mill almost all acrylic with a little aluminum, and I turn mostly aluminum and some acrylic.

For turning aluminum, I use Max Pro tools (on eBay) - cheap and they work beautifully. I use those for acrylic too. For the holders I have mostly Kennametal and Iscar, and never noticed a difference.

For milling, I always go with HSS, never carbide... HSS seems sharper... carbide squeals and grinds, HSS is much smoother when milling. For aluminum I use mostly carbide I get from Maritool, and for my holders, drill chucks and insertable face mills, I buy from Maritool.

I only have one insertable mill, it's a Valenite that I rarely use because the inserts are very expensive and they break too much - they get loose or bind up with chips. I don't like that insertable mill at all.
 
I don't have much in tooling yet, or do I do a whole lot as I'm still in the start up phase here. I tend to stick with Kennametal most of the time. Not that they work better for me or nothing but having a old man that worked there for years and knowing a bunch of people that have worked there or still do I try to keep the people I know working.

I have not had complaints with what kennametal stuff I do have.
 








 
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