Thread: How clean is too clean (lathe)?

A word of warning... I'm kind of nuts
when it comes to the lathe
I have this beautiful old Smart & Brown 1024
lathe and I clean it every day after use. I've
made a habit of brushing off any chips, then
wiping the ways clean with paper towels, until
no dirt comes off. Before use I'll lube the ways,
otherwise they are kept dry, to keep airborne
dust contamination to a minimum. How much wear
will this method of cleaning put on the ways
and are there better practices for cleaning?

Wondering about the abrasive effect of paper
after years of cleaning, maybe thousands of times.

Harri

Harri,
I like clean machines as well, not as particular as you but clean .
I would be careful about leaving the ways bare, if you are in an area with high humidity then you might get surface rust which won't do any harm if cleaned off.

I use a spray like WD-40 after cleaning to keep the surface rust off.

Jackmo

AS long as it's "like" WD40 and not WD40. Starrett M1, LPS 3 actaally stop rust, plus I'm sure many people will suggest other stuff.

Chris P

Hi Harri,

I think you need to worry more about grit than you do the abrasive effect of paper towels!

Perhaps you could do an experiment: the next time you have a two or three week vacation, get a block of cast iron and a big stack of paper towels and spend 10 hours every day wiping the iron. At the end of the time you should have a pretty good idea of how much wear the cast iron sees from that process. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I too like to wipe the ways off after use, but what with being close to the ocean I have to have something to protect against rust, so I have a spray bottle of LPS3 that I use to coat all the bare metal. My experience with WD40 (which I don't keep in the shop any more as I think LPS1 does a better job of what WD40 claims to be good for) is that it is a poor rust preventative.

Before use I'll wipe off the ways (as there is a lot of dust that blows in off the beach) and spray them with the bottle of Vactra 2. The lathe pumps Vactra out of the apron onto the ways in use, so the spray is just to get a starter coating in place.

Chips just get pushed into the bed and cleaned out periodically, not after every use.

I won't claim that I do the above every time I use the lathe, but I try to do it as often as I can remember.

cheers,
Michael

Thanks Michael, great suggestion! Can't stop laughing

Now that you put it that way, I guess wearing out the ways
with paper towels is the least of my worries.
As for vacations, since mine is a one man business,
I've forgotten the meaning of the word.
The air is very dry at the shop, so rust isn't
much of a problem. I'll often just finish cleaning
by wiping with a clean oiled rag to leave some
rust prevention. This of course means one extra
wipe before use because of all that dratted dust
that has settled....

Harri

The ways are hardened on the 1024.

Make sure it has nice new felts on the front and rear of saddle...this will go a long way to preserving the ways.

You talk about lubing the ways ...
way lubing is automatic on all 1024s ...
there is a pump inside the apron that does it.

There is also a sight glass on the apron ...you keep the apron topped on to the level in the sight glass and the oiling is taken care of by the pump.

Oil is pumped out under the saddle ...and the felts keep it confined to that area....if you see it all over the ways in quantity ...then new felts are needed.

The top slide is also oiled by the pump ...no felts on this though ..may need a wipe now and again.


The excess oil from the saddle dribbles over the rack ...this needs wiping now and again as well.



What I would worry about is the oiling to the head .



Take the top plate off and observe , if oil is coming out of each oiler .

if one or two are not oiling ...there is no way to clean them out ...new ones (the Little filter units) are the only way to go.

There is also an oil filter around the back........the old round head oil filters are not available ...but the 1024 vsl ones are .

if you have the old round head one...

Filters can be cleaned ... sort-of, by soaking in kerosene ...then using a wet/dry vac to suck them dry ...keep repeating until kerosene comes out clean

The bi-pass valve for the oil filter can stick ...stopping oil getting to the head.

disassemble and free up...if so

And there is a yahoo group for smart and brown, I run .

You're welcome to join.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smart_and_brown_lathes/

All the best..mark

I used to work with a guy R.J. He wiped his lathe down every morning and at quitting time. He was a fanatic. R.J. used carb cleaner and the only oil on the lathe was from the pump in the carriage. This guy was a real idiot. Several times the lathe would dry lock and you could hardly turn it. The carriage would squeek and moan. He said the lathe would only take about .030 a side per cut.

Once when he was on vacation, I oiled up the lathe like the Exxon Valdez, and run it. I had the old girl taking .350 per side and throwing chips 15ft like a hail storm. When he came back to work he saw what had happened.

The old manager we had wasn't a machinist and was mad that R.J. had pulled the wool over his eyes all this time.

After the old man chewed on R.J., R.J. came out and asked me what I had the lathe set on to do that.


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAha

experience,


JAckal

Thank you everyone, especially Mark. Good info,
I'll keep an eye on those oilers and check the
felts. The lathe is a roundhead model.

Cheers
Harri

A lathe is a working tool. It's criminal to let it decline into a mound of dirt and chips and it's also a crime to do nothing but clean it and keep it pretty. Somewhere in between is practical policy and productivity.

I've seen lots of old machine tools. While their paint may be stained and chipped and the chip pan full that's OK. What I look for is clean oil oozing from the way bearings, evidence of regular wiper servicing, a dust pan and whisk broom (message: no air is used to blow chips), a stack of freshly machined parts, the tooling convenient and in some kind of order, and a general aura of cleanliness borne out of orderly work habits not compulsive tidyness.

I've been in a few home shops as excrutiatingly neat and clean as the old Swiss watches use to be. Everything is spic and span. There's no evidence of projects in progress but the proud owner tells of looking forward to his next acquisition. Drives me nuts: all this equipment and organization and all hs does is add to it and clean it?

I guess I'm a middle of the road guy.

I echo Forrest's maxim of no air to clean chips. All that does is puts a few where they shouldn't be and then they just mess up the machine. Use a chip brush. As far as the ways, I just wipe mine down with a clean shop rag with some way lube to keep them from rusting.

I've never found airborne dust contamination to be a problem, unless the airborne dust is sand or sawdust :mad:

How do you get small chips, bronze particles, etc., etc., out of your chuck if you don't use compressed air ??? Especially if you have a mixture of chips, oil and coolant.......a brush is next to useless.

I try my best to use the air cautiously, but I have to use it every day, all day long. Each and every shop I've ever worked at and been in used air on all of the machines (except the grinders).

If you ever disassemble an entire piece of machinery, clean, inspect, scrape, realign and then begin to use for either profit or hobby, there is a possibility you will not allow anyone to use an air blast to move chips about. John

How do you get small chips, bronze particles, etc., etc., out of your chuck if you don't use compressed air ??? Especially if you have a mixture of chips, oil and coolant.......a brush is next to useless.

I try my best to use the air cautiously, but I have to use it every day, all day long. Each and every shop I've ever worked at and been in used air on all of the machines (except the grinders).

Dunno I'm myth-ed about cleaning chucks myself...cant think of anyway of properly cleaning ..but to take the whole thing apart ...scroll the lot .

lately ..,.please say guys if you think this is wrong,

I've been mixing a 75 % kerosene with 25 % hydraulic oil and squirting into the chuck with a washing up liquid bottle whilst jaws are removed and spinning the scroll ...I then start it up under 50 rpm and continue squirting this stuff into it ...till it looks nice and clean....Bit messy ...but it looks like it's doing the job.

leave it drip for a few Min's ...then give it a flick at 300 rpm or so for a min.
kero evaporates and leaves very light coating of hydraulic oil.

i have no suds ....perhaps this could be done with the suds ...as they get in there anyhows./

direct the suds at the chuck....ANY SUCH THING AS SUDS THAT ACT LIKE SOLVENT.


All the best.mark

Humm, cleaning.... I've heard about that concept.

When I get a 'new to me' machine I usualy bring it home in parts. Everyone I've ever bought was neglected at the end of it's former life and not cleaned. At that point, before it enters the basement, I hit it with Castrol SuperClean & water repeated as many times until I am satisfied with the results. This is the only time I'll use compressed air, to drive off the water. I follow it with kerosene in a pump sprayer or WD40 to make sure the water is displaces from small places.

In every day use, I use a brush, kerosene in a pump sprayer & a rag for cleaning. The pan gets cleaned when full, the ways and top end when they get dirty between cuts. I replace my felt wipers when they look too old, about once a year.

Ted

Harri;

One thing I like to do if my machines will be idle for several days is cover them with an old blanket. The blanket serves as a barrier for both moisture and dirt.
Jim

My work shop is very small with grinders in close distance.
I keep a tarp over my good Monarch EE. The rest of the machines I wipe down with a shop rag and a little kerosene.
My good EE lathe I dont use all the time. I found that after it sits for a couple of days, the oil squeezes out from under the saddle. I found it best to park the carriage at the right end of the bed, run the lathe awhile untill the pump gets oil between the saddle and the ways before moving it. Otherwise the saddle wrings itself to the ways and its hard to move. I think this condition is not good for wear reasons.

Using compressed air to clean any machine tool is a prescription for disaster. If I owned a real machine shop I would fire anybody who used compressed air for cleaning a lathe or such. Sure, it will remove chips, but what you do not see are the chips you have blown into bearings, cross-feed nuts, gearboxes, and the like. After a while you can incurr some serious damage.

Some cases in point from my own experiences refurbishing machines for my home shop. Bought a SB lathe. The ways were just great. How could I go wrong? What I did not see was the QC gearbox that had swallowed mountains of chips over the years as a result of somebody cleaning the machine with compressed air. It was packed with chips. The gear shafts were totally destroyed, bearings totally destroyed, and the gears very heavily worn. I could see chips embedded into the gear teeth. Had to replace the entire gearbox. I learned a lesson about cleaning. I only ever use paint brushes, rags, and vacuum cleaner.

Later, bought a nice looking Clausing 8520 vert. mill. Paint was decent, appeared to be little wear. Upon disassembly, I discovered the right angle gear drive for the knee travel was packed with metal chips. Another victim of compressed air cleaning. Fortunately, this one had not yet progressed to the point of requiring replacement of parts, but I could see the trend.

Used 3-jaw chuck. Hard to operate the jaws and they jammed frequently. Upon disassembly, discovered it was full of chips in the pinion area where the grease should have been. Yea, everybody gets chips all the time in the scroll area where the jaws engage it and move, but you should not be getting them behind the scroll in the gear area. The only way to accomplish that is to use compressed air to drive them in. I use a vacuum to clean the chuck. Remove the jaws and wipe them down. Rotate the scroll or screws while the vacuum nozzle is in the jaw slot, use a paint brush, rags. May be tedious, but sure beats blowing chips into the gears.