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How do you friction weld parts using a Lathe?

David_M

Hot Rolled
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Sep 30, 2014
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Midway, GA, USA
I would like to solid state (friction) weld Nickel 625 to 17-4ph H1150. These rods are 1" in diameter.

My question is: Should I forget about it and send it to an expert? I'm guessing that 1" is pushing or is past the limit.

If it is worth trying in house, is a Kingston 26/90 lathe adequate? Is it a process that has to be learned through destructive testing specimens? Would a flux help?

The finished part will never see more than 500 pounds in tension and there no danger if a part fails other than embarrassment (I do want it to be a non-questionable, high-quality weld, though).

Thanks in advance.

David
 
I remember reading about this long ago, and an important part was getting the rotating part stopped fast enough, if it continued to rotate even slightly after fusing the weld was weak. Beyond that I got nuttin. Maybe shield it with argon? Would love to hear your results.
 
I remember reading about this long ago, and an important part was getting the rotating part stopped fast enough, if it continued to rotate even slightly after fusing the weld was weak. Beyond that I got nuttin. Maybe shield it with argon? Would love to hear your results.

The welding isn't set in stone just yet. I'm looking for ways to avoid drilling a 25d, 6mm hole in the Inconel. I don't have confidence that I could do that. I'll let you know how it goes.

David
 
Drilling Inconel is no diiferent than any other material the right tools and applied properly.

I have a nice Mazak turning center and I don't mind buying a $400.00 Titex or Guhring coolant-through drill, but I think I would need a high pressure pump and set it up to drill to depth in one go, is that right?
 
Friction welding (and inertial friction welding), like friction stir welding, does not use any fluxes, filler metals or shielding gasses. See here: https://www.spinweld.com/friction-welding/#friction-welding-advantages

Another high-end inertial welding vendor: HOME – Interface Welding | Inertia Welding Specialists

One way to "stop" the rotating part fast enough is to have a clutch on the fixed part. When the weld is complete, release the clutch on the fixed part, allowing both parts to spin together. This eliminates the need for a large powerful brake on the rotating flywheel.

If I ever have a large junk lathe, I'd enjoy taking some time to try this. But there would be a lot of testing and scrapped parts before the process produced any reliable joints. And the lathe might not survive the process.
 
I have a nice Mazak turning center and I don't mind buying a $400.00 Titex or Guhring coolant-through drill, but I think I would need a high pressure pump and set it up to drill to depth in one go, is that right?

I was talking Manual. We drilled alot of Inconel on manual machines. Patience and sharp HSS drills.
Was it a pain - yes but it worked.
 
One way to "stop" the rotating part fast enough is to have a clutch on the fixed part. When the weld is complete, release the clutch on the fixed part, allowing both parts to spin together. This eliminates the need for a large powerful brake on the rotating flywheel.
That's how they work, but it's preset, no operator does any "releasing." I *think* there used to be an attachment of some sort available for this. But you'd never find one now ...

How about explosion welding ? Some friends of mine tried that (names concealed to protect the guilty) and half their enclosure disappeared into the sky. They knew not where it landed, and they didn't go door to door asking, either :p

redlee said:
I was talking Manual. We drilled a lot of Inconel on manual machines.
Eeeeuw. And I thought living in China was bad :(
 
I think you may be referring to percussion welding which is a form of electric arc welding. I became an expert on this in the 1980's working for GE. Its a process for bonding two not easily welded materials to one another to produce a joint stronger than the base metals. Works similar to friction welding except the heat source is a multi-thousand amp arc.

Tom
 
Friction welders look a lot like a lathe and cut the OD afterwards as a lathe does but they are very different animals in design and controls.
Yes it is a trial and error process to get right even on a machine designed to do it.
We cut and check the welds very often as it's easy to get wrong but looks all fine from the outside.
It is a way cool process but a real pain to get right.
(added note: get thick gloves for removing parts from machine)
Bob
 
Friction welders look a lot like a lathe and cut the OD afterwards as a lathe does but they are very different animals in design and controls.
Yes it is a trial and error process to get right even on a machine designed to do it.
We cut and check the welds very often as it's easy to get wrong but looks all fine from the outside.
It is a way cool process but a real pain to get right.
(added note: get thick gloves for removing parts from machine)
Bob

Bob, thank you for your post.

I now realize it is out of the question for me to attempt. It is an interesting and neat process that I can see myself using via a specialist in the future, though.

After I see a quote for 'hole popping' I'll decide on that or drilling it in house.

Thanks to every one for your knowledge and direction.

Best Regards,

David
 
I do not want to dissuade you.
It's not out of the question to play with if you want to, just lots of time involved to nail it.
So neat when you get it running but you need to monitor the spindle load as the process runs and pull out at the right time along with getting the speeds right.
It is a so slick deal when done right and you can run thousands of parts at high speed with good welds.
Machine glows nice and bright, come in and cut off the excess... load next.
It is a great deal in high production environments.
I would not try it myself on low production unless I had lots of free time on my hands in which case learning new stuff is always good.
Bob
 
I think you may be referring to percussion welding ...
Were your referring to the explosion welding ? That was meant as something of a joke but it does exist. It's mainly used (as far as I know) to bond dissimilar sheet metals together. The force of the explosion creates a zone where the molecules of the different metals are intermingled. Kind of neat.

And ja, two un-named but well-known people did try that in the back yard. This was in the olde dayes, you'd probably go to prison for that now.
 
I have done this a half-dozen times with great success, always on steel, and usually to weld morse taper stubs or extended shanks to drills and reamers.

One important step is to drill into the center of both parts. This prevents having a cold core that resists the parts pushing together. If you first drill out the center from each part and face them flat, it takes remarkably little pressure on the tailstock at 1000 rpm to get both parts deep orange and melting together. Then just hit the brake. Protect the ways, have a fire extinguisher handy, etc.

It's been very straightforward and a strong weld every time I've done it.
 








 
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