How to figure out which v belt (reeves drive)

kielbasavw · Feb 23, 2018

I have an old metal cutting vertical band saw. Which was made by doall before they used the doall name. They are no help. It has a reeve's drive pulley. And I need to buy pulleys for the motor and a pulley behind the gear drive.
Looking on mc master car they have several different types, 2L 3l 4L 5L A ect..... I am unsure how to figure out what style I need?

Also is there a trick to figure out belt length on a reeve's drive. Motor isn't original I don't know the original size pulleys or belts. Basically rebuilding saw from ground up stealing parts from another machine.

Thanks so much

muckalee · Feb 23, 2018

You can access the web site of all belt manufacture and all the information you seek is included

JRIowa · Feb 23, 2018

Take the belt to your local auto parts store and have them measure it. That will give you the section (L number) and the length.
JR

metalmagpie · Feb 23, 2018

I don't thinl that is a Reeves drive. True, it's a VS drive, but IMO a Reeves drive belt isn't a V belt.

metalmagpie

Ziggy2 · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
I have an old metal cutting vertical band saw. Which was made by doall before they used the doall name. They are no help. It has a reeve's drive pulley. And I need to buy pulleys for the motor and a pulley behind the gear drive.
Looking on mc master car they have several different types, 2L 3l 4L 5L A ect..... I am unsure how to figure out what style I need?

Also is there a trick to figure out belt length on a reeve's drive. Motor isn't original I don't know the original size pulleys or belts. Basically rebuilding saw from ground up stealing parts from another machine.

Thanks so much

Here is a Browning guide. Good general information.

http://www.regalpts.com/PowerTransmissionSolutions/Other/Belt Drive Monthly's/Form_9806E.pdf

Now for what you are doing, you need to determine what belt width the saw was setup for. The pulley width must match the belt width.

This is not a "Reeves" setup. They usually used one belt with both driver and driven pulleys being variable width.

This setup is using two fixed pulleys with the center pulley being adjustable.

If you still have the old belts, they should still have at least some of the identifier marks. The older belts often had the identifier molded in. The newer belts were just marked. Either marking system usually is still intact unless the belt caught on fire. Just Carefully clean it up and look for the identifier.

If you strike out on the belt identifier then you will need to calculate the belt lengths. You will need to have the V.S. adjusted for middle of travel and then assume that the middle pulley diameters will be at the 50% depth and equal. Do the measurements and calculations from there.

This type of V.S. is very sensitive to the two belt lengths and so don't be surprised if you don't get it right on the first try.

Gordon Heaton · Feb 23, 2018

Most auto parts people would freely interchange a 5L belt with a B series belt of equivalent length. There is a significant difference. Always specify the A or B belt for industrial equipment and leave the 4L & 5L for lawnmowers and swamp coolers. You can see why here:
[h=3]Can I Interchange 4L And 5L V-Belts With A or B V-Belts?[/h]

thermite · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
I have an old metal cutting vertical band saw. Which was made by doall before they used the doall name. They are no help. It has a reeve's drive pulley. And I need to buy pulleys for the motor and a pulley behind the gear drive.
Looking on mc master car they have several different types, 2L 3l 4L 5L A ect..... I am unsure how to figure out what style I need?

Also is there a trick to figure out belt length on a reeve's drive. Motor isn't original I don't know the original size pulleys or belts. Basically rebuilding saw from ground up stealing parts from another machine.

Thanks so much

IF.. that is an original and/or "proper" replacement belt.. clean it with care and grab a good source of light.

I have several variations, Reeves and Sputniks under-roof, dealt with far more on printing equipment, and have been fortunate to find the ID size-code printed on the back, and in durable enough material it usually outlasts even a sorely thrashed belt.

As the maker intended, of course.

kielbasavw · Feb 23, 2018

Sorry I called it a reeve's drive when it's not. I had no clue, does this setup have a particular name?
The machines came with 3 4L belts, and one "a51" belt. All are pretty trashed. Obviously not original to the machines. Which is why I asked about which i need.

Would those linked adust able belts be a good idea?
The correct way to set belt length is at mid range?
Thanks so much any help is greatly appreciated. I just bought a 1hp dayton 3450rpm motor.
I did a test run with the craftsman 1750rpm motor which had a 1.5" OD pulley, and a 6" pulley above the variable speed pulleys, it was too slow. Machine was set to 450sfpm, I calculated 122sfpm. So I figured a motor twice as fast and change the 6" pulley to a 3" and that gets me pretty close to what I need to be.

Should I get a larger dia meter motor pulley? And then recalculate what size top pulley I need? Thanks

Ziggy2 · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
Sorry I called it a reeve's drive when it's not. I had no clue, does this setup have a particular name?
The machines came with 3 4L belts, and one "a51" belt. All are pretty trashed. Obviously not original to the machines. Which is why I asked about which i need.

Would those linked adust able belts be a good idea?
The correct way to set belt length is at mid range?
Thanks so much any help is greatly appreciated. I just bought a 1hp dayton 3450rpm motor.
I did a test run with the craftsman 1750rpm motor which had a 1.5" OD pulley, and a 6" pulley above the variable speed pulleys, it was too slow. Machine was set to 450sfpm, I calculated 122sfpm. So I figured a motor twice as fast and change the 6" pulley to a 3" and that gets me pretty close to what I need to be.

Should I get a larger dia meter motor pulley? And then recalculate what size top pulley I need? Thanks

I really don't like the linked belts. They are expensive in comparison to the traditional belts and they do not perform as well but they do have their place.

When you measured the blade speed, how deep in the variable speed sheave were the belts on both sides?

I understand your reasoning but I suspect that your motor is probably too fast. A 1750rpm seems more correct.

Here is why the two belt lengths are critical. The variable speed sheaves will be in equilibrium. The equilibrium is the force balance between the loads on the driven and the drive side.

If the belts are too short, the equilibrium point will be low resulting in a slower than desired speed. Too long and the belts will run high.

This is why I said to set everything for mid travel on the V.S. sheaves. I think if you would change both the motor pulley and the driven pulley to 3in. with the 1750 rpm motor will put you right where you want to be.

kielbasavw · Feb 23, 2018

Ziggy2 said:
I really don't like the linked belts. They are expensive in comparison to the traditional belts and they do not perform as well but they do have their place.

When you measured the blade speed, how deep in the variable speed sheave were the belts on both sides?

I understand your reasoning but I suspect that your motor is probably too fast. A 1750rpm seems more correct.

Here is why the two belt lengths are critical. The variable speed sheaves will be in equilibrium. The equilibrium is the force balance between the loads on the driven and the drive side.

If the belts are too short, the equilibrium point will be low resulting in a slower than desired speed. Too long and the belts will run high.

This is why I said to set everything for mid travel on the V.S. sheaves. I think if you would change both the motor pulley and the driven pulley to 3in. with the 1750 rpm motor will put you right where you want to be.

I'm not quite sure i understand fully.
When I measured blade speed. The dial was set to its max setting of 450sfpm. The belts seemed to look fine within the pulleys nothing seemed too extreme one way or the other. I was able to turn the dial to go through the speeds and all seemed normal.
The top pulley is obviously too big as the belt slightly rubs the machine where the belt goes through a slot in the machine.

I don't see how the 1750 motor could ever work.
It's obvious when I bought machines they were slapped together one was a parts machine for the other.

I wish I could understand it more if I'm totally off. But playing with the saw first hand
Nothing else makes sense other than 3450 rpm and a 3" pulley up top.

thermite · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
Nothing else makes sense other than 3450 rpm and a 3" pulley up top.

If they are old enough.... lower-performance blades, nothing better economically justifiable in their era, might make sense for the slower blade speed off a 1750 RPM motor. The Wilkie's were still Continental Machine when your saws were made, early/mid 1930's

Per DoAll company history, the first use of the DoAll name on a bandsaw was 1935.

Your ones represent some very, very, early days for industrial metal-cutting bandsaws. it was to be several more years before they had decent blades, more yet before they had a factory up to mass-produce their own.

There is no compelling reason they WOULD "make sense" by the measure of later improvements.

Ziggy2 · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
I'm not quite sure i understand fully.
When I measured blade speed. The dial was set to its max setting of 450sfpm. The belts seemed to look fine within the pulleys nothing seemed too extreme one way or the other. I was able to turn the dial to go through the speeds and all seemed normal.
The top pulley is obviously too big as the belt slightly rubs the machine where the belt goes through a slot in the machine.

I don't see how the 1750 motor could ever work.
It's obvious when I bought machines they were slapped together one was a parts machine for the other.

I wish I could understand it more if I'm totally off. But playing with the saw first hand
Nothing else makes sense other than 3450 rpm and a 3" pulley up top.

the old ratio is 1.5 to 6 and you said that it is approx 1/4 of what you say it should be. 1.5 divided by 6= .25 is the ratio you had initially. 4 times the existing .25 would give you a 1 to 1 ratio.

You want to cut the 6in in half which is 3in.

You want to double the 1.5 which is 3in.

That makes the ratio 1 to 1.

By doing this, you would not be changing the combined length of the two belts. Should put you exactly where you think you want to be.

The 1750rpm motor would be reasonable for the time period, a 3450 is not a common speed for the time period.

kielbasavw · Feb 23, 2018

thermite said:
If they are old enough.... lower-performance blades, nothing better economically justifiable in their era, might make sense for the slower blade speed off a 1750 RPM motor. The Wilkie's were still Continental Machine when your saws were made, early/mid 1930's

Per DoAll company history, the first use of the DoAll name on a bandsaw was 1935.

Your ones represent some very, very, early days for industrial metal-cutting bandsaws. it was to be several more years before they had decent blades, more yet before they had a factory up to mass-produce their own.

There is no compelling reason they WOULD "make sense" by the measure of later improvements.

Well the dial on the machine goes from 450sfpm to 75sfpm. With the 1750rpm motor, I was only able to get the blade to 122sfpm. About a quarter the speed it should have been.

kielbasavw · Feb 23, 2018

Ziggy2 said:
the old ratio is 1.5 to 6 and you said that it is approx 1/4 of what you say it should be. 1.5 divided by 6= .25 is the ratio you had initially. 4 times the existing .25 would give you a 1 to 1 ratio.

You want to cut the 6in in half which is 3in.

You want to double the 1.5 which is 3in.

That makes the ratio 1 to 1.

By doing this, you would not be changing the combined length of the two belts. Should put you exactly where you think you want to be.

The 1750rpm motor would be reasonable for the time period, a 3450 is not a common speed for the time period.

Well that makes a lot of sense. No idea why I never thought about that. Damn. Well luckily I can return motor shouldn't be a big deal.
The 1750 is only 1/2hp, I might want to get a bigger one at some point.

Ziggy2 · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
Well that makes a lot of sense. No idea why I never thought about that. Damn. Well luckily I can return motor shouldn't be a big deal.
The 1750 is only 1/2hp, I might want to get a bigger one at some point.

I suspect that you will find that a good 1/2hp motor is very adequate for your vertical band saw. If your motor is a cheap Chicom, then no it won't be big enough as it wouldn't be an actual 1/2hp.

kielbasavw · Feb 23, 2018

Ziggy2 said:
I suspect that you will find that a good 1/2hp motor is very adequate for your vertical band saw. If your motor is a cheap Chicom, then no it won't be big enough as it wouldn't be an actual 1/2hp.

Well where the hell were you when I posted about the saw. Have you seen the posts? Thanks so much for pitching in.

thermite · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
Well that makes a lot of sense. No idea why I never thought about that. Damn. Well luckily I can return motor shouldn't be a big deal.
The 1750 is only 1/2hp, I might want to get a bigger one at some point.

Period of time it was built, middle of a double trough global depression, an operator might not make but a dollar to five dollars a DAY, put up with a lot of abuse, live off ONE square meal a day, and be grateful to have work at all to feed a family just barely.

Unemployment rate, 1933 was 25%, many still in-work at all were on short weeks, short days, short pay rations according.

There didn't have to be anything fast or powerful about that saw back in its day.

Only the ability to "rip" long lengths, cut curves, or work thin materials where a power-hacksaw was usually limited to cross-cut, straight lines, and thicker stock.

You want a more powerful saw, start by moving forward in time by at least 20 years, better yet, 50 or more years.

DoAll BECAME a great name in bandsaws. They weren't BORN that way, just "early".

You appear to own the stillbirth before the first of the line of Favored Sons were yet conceived, and even then - they had to have time to grow up and produce ever-healthier generations of offspring of their own.

Industrial Sawing Machines, Metal Cutting Band Saws | DoAll Sawing Products

Only so much one can do with a meagre beginning of that sort. Using it as-designed, and powered as-intended would be a good start. Not as if it ain't earned the right to be a mite tired, trying to reach its 90th year or so.

kielbasavw · Feb 23, 2018

thermite said:
Period of time it was built, middle of a double trough global depression, an operator might not make but a dollar to five dollars a DAY.

There didn't have to be anything fast or powerful about it. Only the ability to "rip" long lengths, cut curves, or work thin materials where a power-hacksaw was usually limited to cross-cut, straight lines, and thicker stock.

You want a more powerful saw, start by moving forward in time by at least 20 years, better yet, 50 or more years. DoAll BECAME a great name in bandsaws. They weren't BORN that way. You appear to own the stillbirth before the first of the line of favored Sons were yet conceived, and even then - they had to have time grow up and produce ever-healthier generations of offspring.

Industrial Sawing Machines, Metal Cutting Band Saws | DoAll Sawing Products

Only so much one can do with a meagre start of that sort. Using it as-designed would be a good start.

I'm not looking for fancy saw at the moment. I only paid $200 for both saw and filer and a bunch of blade stock. I was able to get the blade brazer working, I just don't know how to use it correctly and what solder/Flux to use. Once it's wotaking it will be a fine saw for my purposes. I typically need/want band saw for sheet metal
I truly appreciate the info and history of it. If you have anything else relivant, I'm all ears

Ziggy2 · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
Well where the hell were you when I posted about the saw. Have you seen the posts? Thanks so much for pitching in.

I usually don't get involved with vintage machine posts. Your question today started out with the V.S. and belt issues so I jumped in.

thermite · Feb 23, 2018

kielbasavw said:
I'm not looking for fancy saw at the moment. I only paid $200 for both saw and filer and a bunch of blade stock. I was able to get the blade brazer working, I just don't know how to use it correctly and what solder/Flux to use. Once it's wotaking it will be a fine saw for my purposes. I typically need/want band saw for sheet metal
I truly appreciate the info and history of it. If you have anything else relivant, I'm all ears

It should do sheet metal just fine, and even thin plate. Pretty much what it probably did, brand-new.

Back in that day - no, I wasn't there, but I worked for companies that had nothing NEWER than Korean War era, and were still using 1890's thru 1920's machinery, plus 1930's clear into the early 1970's - perhaps beyond. I didn't spend a lot of time looking in rear-view mirrors back then, was one war and three better-paying companies further down the road.

- flat plate and bar stock up to about 6" wide, were cut with a power shear. Heavy pipe, hydraulic tubing, and forged billets, a power hacksaw or even a torch.

A bandsaw would have had a specialist niche then, where we might use them for near-as-dammit ALL cutting in many a shop, today.

Your use should be a close match to its original capability set. May you both live long(er) and prosper!

How to figure out which v belt (reeves drive)

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