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indicating mill vice

Ray Behner

Diamond
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Location
Brunswick Oh USA
When indicating in a milling vice I used to use a test indicator and sweep it across the back jaw of the vice like everyone else. To say the least it was sometimes frustrating. A few years ago I came up with this idea. Now it only takes seconds, and just as accurate or better. I'd imagine most of you guys could make it from the photos. My Kurt is true at the backside so I indicate it from there. If that doesn't work just put a parallel in the vice and touch off there. The best way to zero out this gizmo is to first sweep indicate the back side of the table. If it maintains zero, great. If not, record this difference and set dials to corresponding difference. Tighten vice to table with one nut and snug the other. Soft hammer it to zero zero and tighten remaining nuts. It's done. When you bounce this thing off the concrete and knock it out of whack, zero out again on the table. Oh yea, it's also good for squaring up large plates or what have you and truing the table on a universal mill table. Plus you can use it to sine in an angle with longer indicators. Any opinions, good or bad?

Ray

VI2.jpg


VI1.jpg
 
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I like your idea

But why indicate off the back side of the vice? I would think that the most accurate way is to indicate off the face of the non movable vice jaw.

Jack.
 
Hi Ray,

That's nice. :D

It's just like the dual-indicator setup used for tramming the head, laid on its side. I've made a couple of those at different times, and there's at least one commercial product.

The obvious problem is the fact that the surface being gauged is not a controlled surface. It's not guaranteed to be parallel to the other face, on which the jaws are mounted (in the photo).

It also does not account for any non-parallelism (wow!) between the front and back faces of the removable jaw itself.

That's not to say it won't work in a particular situation. Just some concerns regarding the general case. The goal being to set the location of the working jaw face.

How do you set the reference plane? On the tramming indicators there's a ground reference surface. You put the gage on a surface plate and set both indicators to zero. I see no similar reference surface in your design.

- Leigh
 
But why indicate off the back side of the vice? I would think that the most accurate way is to indicate off the face of the non movable vice jaw.

Jack.

Yup, I agree, but like I said my Kurt is right on in that respect. Otherwise it's best to use the backside of a parallel clamped in the vice. Plus on an ol' Bridgeport that's the only way to do it.

Ray
 
Hi Ray,

That's nice. :D

It's just like the dual-indicator setup used for tramming the head, laid on its side. I've made a couple of those at different times, and there's at least one commercial product.

The obvious problem is the fact that the surface being gauged is not a controlled surface. It's not guaranteed to be parallel to the other face, on which the jaws are mounted (in the photo).

Hi Leigh,
Answer:
On this particular Kurt it is dead true, otherwise you must use a parallel.

It also does not account for any non-parallelism (wow!) between the front and back faces of the removable jaw itself.

Answer:
There again touch off to a parallel

That's not to say it won't work in a particular situation. Just some concerns regarding the general case. The goal being to set the location of the working jaw face.

How do you set the reference plane? On the tramming indicators there's a ground reference surface. You put the gage on a surface plate and set both indicators to zero. I see no similar reference surface in your design.

Answer:
I guess I have to assume most mill tables are true at the back side. That would be the best way to reference it to zero. If not, account for the error.

Ray
 
Hi Ray,
Instead of assuming that the back of the table is true you could true up the vice using a dti on the spindle and a parallel in the jaws and once set true drop the dti down to the back of the table and test it. You then would know for sure if the back of the table is true. I still like your idea and am thinking of making one for myself for tramming the head. The do it yourself ideas on this and other sites are never ending.

Jack.
 
Reference plane? Who needs a reference plane?
Strictly there isn't one on this set-up and, provided you start off with the vice indicated in as per normal followed by adjusting the dial gauges to zero zero for that case, there is no need for one. The only implicit assumption is that the faces to which the magnets are stuck are vertically orthogonal to the table movements.

In principle at least this set-up method is very similar to some of the interferometric ways whereby a big optical component is tested by reference to itself. Interesting spluttering noises are common when introducing conventionally educated precision engineers and metrologists to such optical techniques.

Clive
 
Hi Ray,
Instead of assuming that the back of the table is true you could true up the vice using a dti on the spindle and a parallel in the jaws and once set true drop the dti down to the back of the table and test it. You then would know for sure if the back of the table is true. I still like your idea and am thinking of making one for myself for tramming the head. The do it yourself ideas on this and other sites are never ending.

Jack.

Jack,

I completely agree except you'll also want to know that the table is true, like on a universal mill. I've made a few dozen of these things for my friends and they seem to get along good with them. I even printed up an instruction sheet for it.

Ray
 
indicating mill vise

I like it. Yes you might have to check that the back of the table is parallel to the travel of the X axis. Once you know the back of the table can be trusted then stick magnets on column and zero on back of table. Stick parallel in vise sticking above vise jaws if vise back cannot be trusted.

I like. Good ideal.

I got a dual head indicator for tramming the mill head. Maybe I can find a big magnet with adapter that will take a 3/8 or 1/2" shank. That way the dual indicator bracket can do vise and mill head.
 
I just put keys in the slots on the bottom of the vice, set the vice on the table, bolt it down, true within .001 every time. If I need it to be more accurate I just mill a set of soft jaws.
 
I just put keys in the slots on the bottom of the vice, set the vice on the table, bolt it down, true within .001 every time. If I need it to be more accurate I just mill a set of soft jaws.

I agree again, mostly. Except when your vice is fastened to the swivel base or you want to do a big plate or true up your universal mill table or put a keyway in a long bar on V blocks.

Ray
 
If you have already sweeped it with a DTI, and you are adjusting those two dials to those readings then that makes an imperfection in the back of the vise jaws insignificant. Now, when you swept with a DTI, did you tighten something in between the jaws?
 
If you have already sweeped it with a DTI, and you are adjusting those two dials to those readings then that makes an imperfection in the back of the vise jaws insignificant. Now, when you swept with a DTI, did you tighten something in between the jaws?

Mad,

Sorry for the density factor in my brain, but I can't grasp what you're describing.

Ray
 
Since you can mount vise jaws on the surface of the Kurt vise which he's indicating from,why wouldn't that surface be parallel to the inside surface of the Kurt vise?
 








 
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