cheap vs expensive measuring equipment

jjsaluki · Jun 11, 2007

Can anybody give me some concrete examples of what the difference is between some of the cheap and expensive measuring equipment?

I am looking at some telescoping gages TTC ~ $25 B&S ~ $125. They probably won't get used much, and might sit a 6 months to a year between use. Is the reliablility of Starrett, Mitutoyo, ect really worth the price? Can I calibrate before use and trust that they will be accurate over the continuous measuring interval?

Same question for calipers. People like to use $25 cheapos for quick checks at the machine, and they seem to hold up vs the the checks with the more expensive stuff in QC, but what is the limit? Do they wear faster? Are they not accurate over their full range?

What justifies the higher price?

RH68 · Jun 11, 2007

I bought some of the $25 telescoping gauges. IMHO they are junk. Very sloppy fit. I can get an accurate measurement maybe once out of every 3 tries at best. The other times it will always be off by 5 thou or so.

surplusjohn · Jun 11, 2007

I am not an expert on measuring devices but my philosophy is that the cheapest grade of anything is no good for any purpose, the most expensive has a bunch of features that I don't need and the mid level will be functional and a good value. Seems to hold true for apples, tvs, cameras, cars, etc

Holescreek · Jun 11, 2007

Cheap vs. Name brand.

Repeatability, do they always (calipers/micrometers) come back to zero? Micrometers - Are the anvils flat? When closed against an optical flat do both carbide pads contact evenly? Is the cheap Micrometer accurate throughout it's range at various points of reveloution? Do the cheap calipers flex when the jaws are brought together, and are they aligned correctly (can you see daylight between them when closed)? Do the inside and outside measurements agree? Transfer measuring tools such as telescope gages are more forgiving. There are plenty of the name brand used sets available cheap at flea markets. I have Starrets from my jig grinding days.

The bigger question is, if you are called on measurements you took with junk tools, how confident are you going to be that your measurements were correct? -Mike

Kent · Jun 11, 2007

How close do you work?

+/- .002 any of this stuff will function. If you need .0005 it is a different ballgame.

I find the good stuff is smoother and easier to use in a consistent manner. The cheap stuff (generally) is rougher and more sensitive to technique of use to get consistent readings.

I have some cheap stuff I use. But it is knock around shop tools that lay out and are used to +/- .005. If it matters I use the good stuff.

jjsaluki · Jun 11, 2007

Thanks for the quick responses. I guess that what I am looking for is more along the lines of what RH, Kent and surplusjohn gave me.

Holescreek, I understand the basics of metrology and worked as a metrologist for the gov't, but it was all expensive, name brand stuff that only the gov't can afford to buy (and toss), but everything that you said is worth repeating for clarity.

I could create a big database and compare the low end stuff with the high end stuff over time and get the scientific answer, but I thought that I might pick the minds of the experienced.

RH68, that is exactly what I wanted to know and I will probably apply surplusjohn's rule and get something in the middle. I was thinking gee if the cheapos work okay the first few times that you use them, I could just scap them 5 times and still be ahead of the expensive ones.

Kent, good point, most of the stuff that people at the machines quick check with calipers have pretty generous tolerances which may explains why they always test out in QC.

I read this article in the Atlantic over the weekend that said all of this 'stuff' is made in the same factory in China for different companies just different labels and prices. The cheap stuff they sighted wasn't seconds, it was exactly the same stuff.

I am starting to wonder how common that is, and if it applied to the measuring equipment that I am thinking of buying. May be the high end and low end are made elsewhere, but I suspect all of the stuff in the middle comes from the same place.

lwalker · Jun 11, 2007

"The cheap stuff they sighted wasn't seconds, it was exactly the same stuff. "

Depending on what they mean, there may be nothing wrong with that. Semiconductor manufacturers make all of the same type of chip in the same foundry on the same line. Different accuracy levels of e.g., a voltage reference device, depends on what the parts test out to. The "-A" grade part may meet a spec to within 0.1%, "-B" to 1% and "-C" to 5%. The fallout from minor process variations means that the manufacturer can sell the "same" device for a different price depending on how it's graded.

This is normal manufacturing practice and it could be exactly what the Atlantic meant.

Ries · Jun 11, 2007

My theory is that I will never own a Faberge Egg, or a Ferrari, or a Sam Maloof rocking chair, drink $500 a bottle aged single malt, or buy a Holtzappfel mahogany and brass ornamental turning lathe.

But the small difference in cost, usually under 50 bucks, lets me own very nice, in some cases quite beautiful, measuring tools.

The pleasure I get when I pick them up and use them is not measurable- but it sure seems worth it to me.

I recently spent over $60 on a 4" Starrett adjustable square- and every time I pick it up, I smile. Its not a precision tool, and the accuracy of a $5 chinese 6" would have been adequate, I suppose. But I know that I still have, and use, Starrett, Lufkin, and B&S tools I bought as long ago as the 70's, and still enjoy them every time I use them, even if its not very often.

Seems to me these are very low prices to pay for quality.

On the other hand, if all they are to you is tools, and the end goal is whats most important, then buy the cheapest stuff that seems adequate. Me, I like to smell the occasional flower along the way.

jabezkin · Jun 11, 2007

Jeeze Ries, you are quite the word smith, you put my emotions into words. Gush Gush

For the long run the BEST is the cheapest.

Let me add Etalon.

Madlab · Jun 11, 2007

If you make $5.00 parts you are probably OK with $5.00 mic's. To rip off an old crash helmet ad that said something like "If you have a $15 Head wear a $15 dollar Helmet".

What justifies the higher price?

I think piece of mind is the answer you are after. Your work is only as good as you can characterize it. You need to be able to prove and sell to your customer good parts. If you were going to spend alot of money with someone would you like to see them with a QC dept. full of cheap imports? Just a thought.... I like to save money too! But sometimes saving pennies costs you big dollars. -matt (But then again I do have a $15 dollar head)

tnmgcarbide · Jun 11, 2007

"I think piece of mind is the answer you are after"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Iron_Maiden_-_Piece_Of_Mind.jpg

Madlab · Jun 11, 2007

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Iron_Maiden_-_Piece_Of_Mind.jpg

HooKay .....maybe not....... you kids scare me.

SteveM · Jun 11, 2007

I worked with a guy who was one of the cheapest guys I'd ever known, but one of his mottos was:

You buy cheap, you buy twice.

Steve

Old Bill · Jun 11, 2007

How would you feel being wheeled into the operating room for some brain surgery, look over and see some "Harbor Freight" surgical instruments. Your tools and their care are making a statement about the owner! Old Bill

jabezkin · Jun 11, 2007

Old Bill;
You must have the same health care plan I do!!

adama · Jun 11, 2007

lol if you think thats bad health care wise dont try our NHS there stuff says made in asia, no one will own up to making it

but then we all belive in a bad workman blames his tools right???

personaly i have sean more than a few problems caused by cheep mesuring tooling. in both cases putting it right involved a large product recall and tens of thousands of pounds. myself i stick to the middle of the road stuff but only then from name brands, not fly by nights. if you shop carfully you can get some real good deals, sometimes as cheep as the cheep stuff but a reconised brand. i got a 0-1" mike for £6 in a close out from a electrics supplyer once, its mutiyo carbide tipped and normally goes for at least 5+ x that much. as far as i can tell both opticaly flats - gauge blocks its fine.

one thing i am currently looking for thouogh is a surface plate, now this is just a lump of rock thats flat on one side, can i get away with cheep, will the certificate i get be real or a piece of paper in no way connected to my rock? whilst i could tell if its a mile out, i couldn't if its near, and thats the hole reason i want one to improve my idea - definition of FLAT!! second hand it would be as expensive as new, but how come there cost varies so much? at the end of the day if its about 2 foot squer and flat to a thou over all im happy. just cant think of a easy way to test - prove that level of precision with my gear. whilst cheep would praphs be ok quality wise i need - must trust it and i dont hence why i have yet to open my wallet.

hexbasher · Jun 11, 2007

you get what you pay for (buy nice or buy twice)

if you like to drop your indicators, then buy chinese made ones....etc

if you're like me, and you oil all the tools you use at the end of the day, baby them, lay them down on clothes and not on the brench, then they'll last forever....

the following things in my tool cabinate are chinese made: feeler gage, 3-wire set, and a 21 pc. indicator tip set....the rest are Mitutoyo or Starrett...wrenches/sockets are semi cheap (bought at Canadian Tire) but i bought channell-lock pliers and Wera Screwdrivers..Allen brand wrenches are always a must though, same thing with the Vise-Grip Brand

ask yourself....(for example)...is a 400 dollar pair of 12" dial calipers worth it???or are the 60 Chinese ones worth it (is the amount of work you'll use em for worth it?)..

remember, its a micrometer, not a C-clamp

Davis In SC · Jun 11, 2007

Anytime I have bought a cheap tool, I always regretted wasting the money, it would have been much better to have added a bit to the price, and had a quality tool.. About all those cheap measuring tools are good for, is for lending out.

anteekfreek · Jun 11, 2007

Maybe I'm a measurement "snob", but I've always tried to own the best I could afford.

I have a hard time trusting cheapo junk. Years ago a kid bought a set of Chuan brand solid squares and I had to certify their accuracy. After checking the flatness and parallelism of the base, I clamped each of them to to a lab-grade granite square and ran an Interrapid "tenths 0.0001" indicator accross the beam. They were all out of square nearly 0.010" !!!!!

I've never seen any movement beyond 0.0001" using the same indicator measuring a new Starrett solid square.

Heck....some of the junk mics sold now don't even have a maker's name !! Only a peel-off sticker that says "Made in China".

Take a set of micrometers and carefully measure the length of a new Starrett 6" scale...........

jims · Jun 11, 2007

I'm so old that when I bought my Mitutoyo tools
they were the cheapest ones.
jims

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