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Hydraulic Piston material

jrmach

Titanium
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Location
Boise,Idaho USA
I am using Induction Hardened Chromed Rod 1050 made by Nimax,,for the piston rod
What material should I use for the piston,,it has to weld on to the rod
Special weld instructions are appreciated
I am totally out of my usual comfort zone with this project
Thanx in advance
 
One component of the product we manufacture consists of 45mm induction hardened, ground and chromed rod welded to a piece of 1018, with a piston screwed to the opposite end. It is used in a 2500 psi hydraulic cylinder. We have manufactured tens of thousands of these, with a failure rate of the weld of near zero. Both parts are preheated to about 200 degrees and wire welded. The piston is made of 12L14. I don't see why you cant make your piston out of 1018. We chose 12L14 for the piston because of the ease associated with machining it, and the fact that it is not welded.
 
I have built and repaired many hydraulic rods, cyilinders and pistons and have never seen a piston welded to the rod.
It is usually 2 separate pieces with a nut or the piston is threaded onto the rod.
Piston material is usually nothing special, 1018 aluminum etc.
The wear ring on the piston protects the tube from galling to piston. Some also have a ring of brass brazed on and machined to size.
If you are going to weld it leave it oversize and then machine to size after welding.
 
Worked in cylinder design for 21 years and never saw a piston welded to a piston rod. How will you get the gland on? Unless the outboard end has no fitting you can't.
 
Dan,hopefully this well helphghg.JPG

I got tasked with reverse engineering the unit as the company that used to make them don't wanna no more
This is a tried and proven design that is customed tailored for the application it is used forHydraulic Assembly.jpg
 
Double acting or double ended ? Do you have one in your hands? There is no way that the piston is welded to that shaft.
Double ended you have to thread it in that situation..... one rod is the nut the other is the bolt....
 
Its a double rod cylinder and is frequently used where the speed and force is required to be equal in both directions. Send Mike a private message and ask about the possibilities. My memory is that an o ring seal groove is in the id of the piston to seal against flow and snap ring grooves are machined in the rod to located the piston.
 
jrmach,

You will indeed need special welding instructions. I would guess that no matter which welding method you choose, you're going to have to spend time straightening the assembly as sure a there is a Santa Claus that thing is going to tweak on you. Unless there is an accommodation made for stopping the piston before it bottoms on the end caps the weld will have to be 100% hidden in the piston.

Have you given some thought on how else this could be achieved...I'm sure you have. Welding the piston in the middle of the rod is really daunting but it appears the folks who built this previously made it work.

Stuart
 
I think the reason it's welded is it looks like a shop made cylinder, rather than a COTS cylinder assembly.
 
Well this whole project is daunting,,lol
As you said,it works
Customer asked me to make 10 units please
I am not going to try re-engineering something that they like
Just make it and get paid

I did check the unit for concentricity,,,,,.005 tir,,,pretty impressive,considering
 
Cant see too well anymore, but has that been welded or soldered? Either way, you will still get enough heat to need straightening.
We once made a cylinder rod with an aluminum piston cast onto the middle of the rod. I don't remember having to straighten the rod, but it had to have some bend in it. Rod was about 6 feet long.
 
If it helps,,the cylinder is only 5 3/4 inches long with a 1 1/2 inch bore
The outside of "Cylinder" is actually threaded/kinda,,they used a .0625 radius tool at 20 pitch,,,guessing so the clam shell holds it from moving
This a hydraulic/foot controlled Down Pedal assembly that controls the Cavatation plate for K-Boats
and there are many other parts to this whole system
At least a dozen KBoats are running this system now.In this particular shop there is 4 in production from ground up right now.Including the mold of the body
The main boat this shop sponsers is #1
They know their stuff as far as what workshaha.JPG
 
With the coating, this was welded in place. First question... is induction hardened rod a requirement? Unless it is subjected to a steady flow of gravel, IH is probably not a requirement and will make the weld a LOT easier, as it's not going to harden on you and crack. We usually only saw induction hardened rods on the dirty end of excavators and other earth moving equipment. It's also hell to machine on the ends for eyes and piston threads. Usually heat a band where you want to machine so it anneals and works just like regular rod. If you can avoid the IH,do so.

As for how to weld it, that's a TIG job if I ever saw one. Make it a near shrink fit, just a few thou clearance and TIG it up. With that little clearance for it to draw and the concentrated heat of TIG, it's not going to move much and likely will not bent the rod at all. Also, gently grind the chrome off the rod at the weld. It's only about .003" thick or less, so pretty easy to remove with just a die grinder and sanding disc. That will prevent weld contamination.

I have seen pistons welded to rods, glands welded to tubes, all kinds of crazy stuff on proprietary cylinders. We were about the only shop around that would do that kind of work. Some of it was insane. We would build this kind of thing, spending dozens of hours cutting it apart, making rods, eyes, pistons, tubes, butts, glands, spend hours looking up seals, figuring how to build it and not melt the seals, get it all together and the owner would charge the customer $150. Wasn't like we were dying for work, either... we were slammed and spending two days doing this when there was a $5000 crane cylinder that just needed to be put together. Never understood it.
 
With the coating, this was welded in place. First question... is induction hardened rod a requirement? Unless it is subjected to a steady flow of gravel, IH is probably not a requirement and will make the weld a LOT easier, as it's not going to harden on you and crack. We usually only saw induction hardened rods on the dirty end of excavators and other earth moving equipment. It's also hell to machine on the ends for eyes and piston threads. Usually heat a band where you want to machine so it anneals and works just like regular rod. If you can avoid the IH,do so.

As for how to weld it, that's a TIG job if I ever saw one. Make it a near shrink fit, just a few thou clearance and TIG it up. With that little clearance for it to draw and the concentrated heat of TIG, it's not going to move much and likely will not bent the rod at all. Also, gently grind the chrome off the rod at the weld. It's only about .003" thick or less, so pretty easy to remove with just a die grinder and sanding disc. That will prevent weld contamination.

I have seen pistons welded to rods, glands welded to tubes, all kinds of crazy stuff on proprietary cylinders. We were about the only shop around that would do that kind of work. Some of it was insane. We would build this kind of thing, spending dozens of hours cutting it apart, making rods, eyes, pistons, tubes, butts, glands, spend hours looking up seals, figuring how to build it and not melt the seals, get it all together and the owner would charge the customer $150. Wasn't like we were dying for work, either... we were slammed and spending two days doing this when there was a $5000 crane cylinder that just needed to be put together. Never understood it.


+1 to this.

Use soft chrome rod and undercut the area on the lathe where you'll be welding, just to get rid of the chrome. I try to stay away from chromed rods with hand tools. It's way too easy to slip and screw up the rod.
Make the piston out of 1018, give it a -.002" shrink fit and you won't have to worry about it tipping or going wonky on you when welding.
 
I can't help but think of a way to avoid the welding. How about a retaining ring (one of the heavy type without the eye holes) fitted to a groove in the shaft. Captive nest this snap ring deep into a counterbore in one side of the piston. Cut a retaining ring groove in that same side of the piston to install a retaining ring to retain the first retaining ring. You might have to allow for a heavy washer in between the retaining rings so that you have room to collapse the outermost retaining ring for assembly.

Assemble with maybe a .001" shrink fit of the piston
 
Looks like a 3/4" rod. You aren't going to get a shrink fit that far down with it that small. Needs to be just BARELY clear. If it works welded now, no need to build a better mousetrap.
 
Depending on the loads you could pin the piston to the shaft, the pin being under the wrap around bearing. Put an o-ring groove either on the shaft or on the id of the piston
 
IMO it's a bit of a lash up design, but you are where you are, so just weld it - preheating will cut down the distortion - and straighten afterwards.

Me? I'd thread the join say 1/2'' unf ........with a register for the piston to sit on and alignment in the female side and green Loctite it together, ........and thinking about it, I can't see that taking much longer than welding and straightening.
 








 
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