I need help sketching a path to a relatively good career.

Okay I'm starting a new job Monday as a CNC operator and I think they want me to do a little manual work but I'm not entirely sure yet. I'm starting at community college this fall for the first time because I made the mistake of procrastinating my payment plan before the due date last year.
I want to eventually be able to cnc program and I want to keep improving as much as I can when I get to that goal, to insure a promising future. I want to know if anyone knows what kind of classes I should go for in school I know a majority of the value comes from work experience, but what should I take.
And can someone help me understand how programming and cad drawings work? Do they go hand in hand? I understand how programming is done but not with cad and stuff.
Also another question when I was little I wanted to be a mechanical engineer but entering high school I was swayed to a cnc programmer. I never really understood what engineers do, do they just design?

And let's say I make it as a cnc programmer, I want to be able to run lasers, water jets, and other complicated operations. Is this where the big money is? I've heard stuff like aerospace technology. How will I know I'm ready for those operations in my career? Or is it really hard to get into that field?

On the engineering side of it, prepare yourself to be a math major. Trig is just scratching the surface, you will probably get into matrix algebra, differential equations, statistics, etc. Its super theoretical, abstract, and applies very little to a job that an ME might eventually have. There's some component of an ME program that is trying to break you mentally. I say that somewhat in jest, but its also very real. A lot of potential MEs are "weeded out" along the way. What you do actually get is Persistence, and Problem Solving. And those skills are ultimately very useful. Problems are typically difficult, and to allude to your question about what MEs do, they can be involved in product design, test & development, and manufacturing to just name a couple of broad areas. I've been involved in all three but spent the most time with my car parked at a factory Sounds boring, eh, material goes in, finished products come out, easy peasy. In broad strokes, manufacturing is moving to ever higher levels of automation, and so there are technical jobs around working on all aspects of the automation from repairs to modifications, to solving problems of why it won't run at times, why it turns every 99th part into a pretzel, which parts should we stock for repairs, how often do we service it, etc. Its a very busy job and no two days are exactly the same.

So back to CNC, again painting with broad strokes I call that a subset of "servomachinery" which also can include pick-and-place machines and industrial robots. But accurate, fast machines which run from a set of instructions to a set of positions, making logical decisions from inputs. There are a variety of programming "languages" from G code to ladder logic to specific robot controllers.

To make a machine do what you want you have to understand its language (programming) and what you want it to do (part drawing). I'll say that your most advanced shops are using CAD and CAM to basically automate the programming process from a set of edge tools to create the features and geometry described in the part drawing. Lots of skills from there to hold the required tolerances, hold the part, maximize edge tool life, and reduce runtime in the name of efficiency.

Its hard to describe it all in one post and by no means have I even started the process of seeing it all.....I have a relatively narrow viewpoint, there are many many other industries out there that need technical people.

If you want to get into programming one thing I would encourage taking that MOST CNC programmers have not, is a class on programming. Not as it applies to G-Code, but programming in general. A good intro to computer science, offered at most colleges (for free through many schools), should suffice. Basically, if you want to learn the art of programming, learning a language aside from G-Code would be a better place to start. Python makes a great first programming language. You might check this out seeing you have the summer before you can resume formal classes.

Matt makes sense, and its good advice.
Otoh, the "advanced" stuff is pretty much becoming the baseline stuff.

CAD CAM are already dirt cheap, and getting cheaper fast. Essentially, the cheap tools are better than the expensive ones were a few years back.
Likewise in robotics, automation etc.
There are still expensive sw tools, that will likely be superseded by the new, much cheaper ones.
Like 2D cad, used to cost 10k. Now its free, from any nr of industrial packages.
3D cad, used to cost 10k.
Now its 1K, from any nr of packages.

Thus the baseline for a "good" worker is getting much higher.
3D CAD is not a highly valuable skill, anymore, unless you can do very good, very high end work(associative dimensioning, assemblies, animation, automation, databses, automated production etc).
Large models. Accurate models.
Ex. Model a ballscrew. With ballnut. With balls. To manufacturing tolerances (sub micron). Note the arch that has 3-point contact. Note the threads at ends, to say class 3A tolerances.
Thats about 1 gigabyte model, and either 200 hours work, or you are very good and can do it in a day.
Guess which worker is desirable ?

Todays basic, cheap, 3d milling machines will be 5 axis and more, within 5 years. At the same 20k cost.
There is an example, Neo, for jewelry, 5 axis industrial quality, 20k. Etc.

Tooling is getting cheaper, automation components are getting very much cheaper.
CAD,CAM,programming, machine design are likely to be outsourced to countries where industrial engineers live very well at 2k/month. And so on..

I am not giving specific advice. Just some things to think about and take into account.
Whateer you do, you should aim for excellence in these fields, with new tools.

Todays tools, sw and hw, are still basic, but will not be 5-10 years down the line.
Multi-turrets, multifunction machines with automation will become much cheaper and more common.

Todays its japanese, but soon it will be taiwan, chinese and indian machines at 1/3 the price point.

georgee1 said:

Okay I'm starting a new job Monday as a CNC operator and I think they want me to do a little manual work but I'm not entirely sure yet. I'm starting at community college this fall for the first time because I made the mistake of procrastinating my payment plan before the due date last year.
I want to eventually be able to cnc program and I want to keep improving as much as I can when I get to that goal, to insure a promising future. I want to know if anyone knows what kind of classes I should go for in school I know a majority of the value comes from work experience, but what should I take.
And can someone help me understand how programming and cad drawings work? Do they go hand in hand? I understand how programming is done but not with cad and stuff.
Also another question when I was little I wanted to be a mechanical engineer but entering high school I was swayed to a cnc programmer. I never really understood what engineers do, do they just design?

And let's say I make it as a cnc programmer, I want to be able to run lasers, water jets, and other complicated operations. Is this where the big money is? I've heard stuff like aerospace technology. How will I know I'm ready for those operations in my career? Or is it really hard to get into that field?

Click to expand...

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as a CNC operator i do some things to help me

1) i create a checklist which i print out every job and check off things before starting a program. i suggest you write on checklist the basic things like loading program procedure, setting tools, etc. this helps especially if i work on a machine 6 months later. the less mistakes you make the more likely they give you more and harder to do jobs

2) record feed and speeds on every tool used both the highs and lows. this way when you program you will know the range of whats normally used. record all times tool life was unusually short and why you think it was short. calculate rpm of tool to sfpm. get use to doing math. i calculate all programmed depths and figure ahead of time if i am going to be close to vise jaws ahead of time.

3) Cad drawing get used to reading them and understanding gd&t symbols. you can use a simple cad program like the free librecad to draw simple stuff and i often use to help draw stuff and figure coordinates. doing the math helps but often you can draw in 10 seconds and pick points to create dimensions faster than the math can be done

4) programming i advice run the programs and get used to the way the head programmer likes to program. I have often programmed a different way and had the head programmer change stuff. Sometimes his way was better and sometimes not. I would get used to keeping the head programmer happy. Also when you make and measure parts confirm they match drawing. i occasionally catch programming errors for example not making the part to the middle of a tolerance range. Catching program errors and politely and quietly letting the head programmer know to not embarrass him goes a long way.

5) Feel free to go to school but often they might teach say Mastercam but you company uses a different program like ProE. Most software is so different that it can take many months easily to learn another cadcam software. often at companies the software is only on a few computers. you might not even get the opportunity to use computers with the cad cam software for many years

6) learn how the different parts are setup in fixtures, vises, etc. Programming many time starts with how are you going to hold and setup the raw part. calculating how much to remove off the top and sides and not hit the vise jaws. often learning different ways to setup parts is more a part of programming than anything else. often beginners are stuck trying to figure how to make a part. many times a new part is just a modified older program with a few dimensions changed. by learning and remembering how other parts were made it helps when programming to make new parts

georgee1 said:

And can someone help me understand how programming and cad drawings work? Do they go hand in hand? I understand how programming is done but not with cad and stuff.
Also another question when I was little I wanted to be a mechanical engineer but entering high school I was swayed to a cnc programmer. I never really understood what engineers do, do they just design?

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got google?

sorry to be a hard ass, but if you interested in these things you'd have those answers already.

So far as career advice goes, whatever path you go down, keep learning, strive to understand everything at a deep level, and try to learn a broad spectrum of machines and operations.

If I hire a button pusher to run a plasma, it doesn't matter how awesome the market is i'm selling to (none of them are btw, all this stuff, plasma, water jet, laser, is largely commoditized) I want to pay the operator as low wage as i can and still get and keep a good person. In other words if did "get into" a hot market, the company is still only going to want to pay what they need to pay.

So what do you do? increase your value to an employer. My anecdotes are more shop floor, but the principles are the same. Become skilled at a wide variety of systems and machines - someone who can be moved around to where extra resources are required are valuable. I've guys that are ticketed fitter/welders, mechanics, mill wright and they can paint. And I've got guys that run the plasma and that's all they want to do....guess who makes more? Never stop learning....later if you got the aptitude, you can take some courses and get into a jr management role, etc which opens new earnings levels. The guy who can run everything and manage the plant makes the most.

Go to school to be a Chef, better smelling environment, you still get to design, build and use tools.

Much better money.

You didn't say how large of company your working for. Some of the larger ones have educational funding programs that you can take advantage of. If they do, that definitely should be on your path sketch.

scadvice said:

You didn't say how large of company your working for. Some of the larger ones have educational funding programs that you can take advantage of. If they do, that definitely should be on your path sketch.

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It is, I'm more concerned with the degree or certificates. I was told degree in industrial manufacturing technology or in machine tool technology is good for overall general purpose like if I'm not sure what path in manufacturing I would take part in. And if I was really set to go into a certain field, to go into certificates: vocational specialist in Machine Tool operations, mold making, and tool and die, cnc operator.

Are degrees better than certificates. I'm under the impression associates doesn't really make a big deal but I'll need it to move into a bachelor's right? And what's the opinion on how masters or bachelor's make a difference in manufacturing specifically if I wanted to be a programmer.