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  1. #1
    Dafixer is offline Plastic
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    I just purchased a Sioux valve grinder model 622 off E-Bay. It's older than dirt but the price was right, and for my humble needs I hope it will suffice.
    I've been having a hard time finding any info about it on the net, in fact I havn't been able to find any info on this particular model.

    Everything works with the exception of the fluid pump. The bracket was broken and then JB welded. That didn't last either. I plan on rewelding the bracket.
    Does anyone know anything about them, or at least could direct me to a link? The biggest thing I would like to know was how was the stone trued, was there a special fixture or a tool just placed in the chuck? I would also like to find a reprint of an original instruction manual.

  2. #2
    gbent's Avatar
    gbent is online now Diamond
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    While I havn't used one that old, I suspect there was (hopefully is) a bracket that bolts on under the valve chuck that holds the diamond.

  3. #3
    vises is offline Aluminum
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    Try the Albertson Co Sioux City Iowa. I believe
    they made your machine.

  4. #4
    aboard_epsilon's Avatar
    aboard_epsilon is offline Titanium
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    there is something sticking out of the guard on top ...
    looks like you put the diamond there ...and move the guard in and out on the shaft it attaches to.

    there isn't a great more detail to know ...
    here's how i did my valves

    Put the first one of the valves in ...blued it up so that I could adjust and get it to cut exactly the same.

    whilst rotating machine manually ..get it to scratch all the way across...by adjusting pivot..to follow as valve was before

    note... Old valve seal placed on stem to stop dust getting in the collet.



    then just do the rest without any need for adjustment.

    old pitted and newly ground



    all the best.mark

  5. #5
    brucepts is offline Aluminum
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    I have the exact same valve grinder sitting in my shop. There is a fixture that bolts to the stud sticking up from the table in front of the chuck in your pic. I'll try and snap a pic or two of my machine today for you. I do not have any info on the machine though.

    Looks like your machine also only has one wheel? Mine has a wheel on both ends of the spindle. One side for truing valves and the other end for stem work and grinding rocker arms. I bought mine from the original owner and came complete with all the extra fixturing. If I recall I have the original bill of sale somewhere, I'll see if I can get a date of sale to give you an idea how old it actually is.

  6. #6
    bob308 is offline Hot Rolled
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    your machine is the wet cut version of the dry cut i have. but it takes the same dresser as yours. it bolts on the stud that is front of the chuck also there is another attchment that uses that stud and the raised alinment bar for but grinding valves.

    don't worry about the age i have been using mine for over 10 years to do comp valve jobs.

    the sioux valve grinders are about like s-b lathes as long as they are all there and run they will make good parts.

    if you want i will try to get you some pics of both attchments on the grinder.

  7. #7
    Carl Darnell is offline Titanium
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    Mark, you don't set the grind angle to the old valve. You look up what it is supposed to be in a valve specs book and set it accordingly. The seat angle and valve angles many times are not the same. sometimes it's 1 deg different so there is an interferrence fit but it don't have to be if you grind two or more angles on the seat. The valve is a one angle face and the seat is two or three angles but some grind a radius on the seat.

    Grinding valves and seats have many schools of thought so do some searching. Most people just want the valves to seat and seal properly so keep it simple but follow the engine manufacturers specs.

  8. #8
    Dafixer is offline Plastic
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    Brucepts: The grinder only has one wheel. It does not look like it would be possible to dress a stem. I'd love to see a picture of your machine, I don't think there would be a way to run a second wheel, but ya never know!

    bob308: If you could get me a picture of the dresser I would really appreciate it! I will probably have to fabricate one. If you've got pics of any other attachments that would be great too!

    aboard epsilon: I've go a handle on cutting the valves, setting the proper valve angle with this machine is easy: The back of the valve chuck has a notch cut out of it that corresponds to an angle marked in the base.

    everybody: Thanks for the help!

  9. #9
    WA Toolman is offline Cast Iron
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    OMG! I was an Automotive Machinist in my late teen years (late 50's/early 60's) Worked for an engine rebuilder in So Cal. Anyway, back on topic not memory lane... The diamond dresser is just a standup that fits into the stud under the chuck as has been pointed out. Used a standard 1/2" dia diamond dresser and it was fed across the stone. The base looked something like what's sticking up in the tray on the right side of the picture.
    RE: facing the ends...What they had used a V-block setup that fit on the same little stud under the chuck and located in a 'v' in the base casting. I don't know if it was home made or not.

  10. #10
    brucepts is offline Aluminum
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    Here is a few pics of my grinder

    Right side


    Left side


    Extra fixtures for grinding


    Grinder overall


    Should give you a good idea after seeing the pics.

  11. #11
    aboard_epsilon's Avatar
    aboard_epsilon is offline Titanium
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    hey ...dont trust those degree marks on the machine...
    my valves are 45 degree and my head seats were also 45 degrees ...

    the Rover manual said so ...no three angle cuts etc.

    I set the valve this way ....because i did a dummy run with some old 45 degree valves i collected from garages around here ...
    and found that 45.5 degrees on the scale was actually 45 degrees ...

    so i would set as i say ....you cant go wrong ...if you are only doing normal valves...


    the proof is in the pudding ...if that's how the saying goes ...

    pics of valves just sitting in the combustion chambers .,..no springs ...holding white spirit for over half an hour without any bubbles or seepage ...
    in-fact they held it all night ...

    only 45 seconds lap given to each valve

    pics

    I performed leak test "without" the valve springs ...just the weight of the valves .
    you are just going to have to take my word on this -.
    as you can see
    it stood for 35 Min's with the combustion chambers full of white spirit (polly paint thinner) ...no leaks or bubbles.
    And that is good enough for me . [img]smile.gif[/img]

    The reason I didn't want to put the springs on ...is that ...if it did spill when I emptied it ,...it would wash away the lubricant that I will put on the valves during assembly...and that would mean disassembling again.





    all the best.mark ....

    PS don't trust that degree scale until you have done some tests with it.

  12. #12
    bob308 is offline Hot Rolled
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    burcepts beat me to it. the one is the dresser that i have and in the other pic the one on the left is what i use to butt grind the ends of the valves.

    the 1deg interfearanc fit is so the valves seat real quick covers up a lot of mistakes in doing the seats. they just beat in real fast. you want the valve face and the seat to be the same angle.

    check the deg markings on the macgine but don't trust valves to do it. don't even trust new valves. even grind new valves some are way off. using an old valve to set up with is not a good idea. how do you know it is right and if it is good why regrind it?

  13. #13
    bob308 is offline Hot Rolled
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    mark i will say you are one of the few people that i have seen that knows how to test and see if the valves are sealing. if don't past your test or the one i do which is so close to yours. then the head is not worth putting on the motor.

  14. #14
    Dafixer is offline Plastic
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    WOW! I know I'm new here but you guys have gone out of your way to help and I REALLY appreciate it!

    Brucepts: Thanks for the pics! Looks like your machine is either slightly newer or the "deluxe" model.
    aboard: If your valves seal up like that you'll never have a problem with a leaking valve on a running engine.

    I guess one other question I had is the disassembly of the valve chuck. The rear of the valve chuck assembly is very clear in Brucepts "left side" picture. I would like to disassemble mine for cleaning and belt replacement but it is kind of a mystery. Looks like a tool is used to unscrew the nut except there appears to be a square piece of keystock that locks everything together. This piece of equiptment has been sitting and is gummed up. I don't like forcing things and I definatly don't like tearing up antique machinery.

  15. #15
    WA Toolman is offline Cast Iron
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    I guess one other question I had is the disassembly of the valve chuck.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    I wanted to take the chuck apart to clean it on the one I was running. Old timer said "Don't do it kid, I'll slap the *** outta ya" Apparently those chucks have a bunch of balls in them like ball bearings, with strong springs behind them. If you do take it apart, be prepared to spend a lot of time on your hands and knees with a flashlight and a magnet.
    Off topic: Too bad you're so far away, I have a Sioux Hard Seat Cutter.

  16. #16
    J. Randall is offline Stainless
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    I never saw the need to do that kind of a leak test if I had just ground the valves and seats. I knew they were good.
    James

  17. #17
    aboard_epsilon's Avatar
    aboard_epsilon is offline Titanium
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    i did give that machine a mini overhaul before i ground any valves .....

    it looked like this when i first had it ..






    this is important to do ...because old grinding dust will make its way into the bearings ....
    gives you a chance to put nice clean grease in there ...and get the preload right ...clean out the way and gib areas ...and adjust the gibs nicely.


    then it is should be measured for run-out ...with a dial test indicator .

    when grinding valves like mine ...air on the side of the valve that is outside the combustion chamber ....so your 45 degrees ...is 0.05 degrees different...sort of ...just enough so that when the engine fires its not burning through a gap at the top of the valve...no way of measuring this really ...its just a tap on the chuck....it will end up perfectly seating ...but that little difference is just to make sure...its aired on the right side.

    and make sure you keep cleaning the collet and the collet bore ...as even specs of dust will lead to valve running out when put in there .

    and do what i did ...scounge a pile of old valves from garages to practise on first ...only take the strait ones that haven't hit pistons ...doi the roll along bench test on them.

    garages sometimes replace whole sets when cambelt snaps ...so they have plenty spare undamaged ones.

    well that's back-street garages ...not dealers ...as they just fit a new or recon head, these days.

    all the best..mark

  18. #18
    JoeFin is offline Stainless
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    I wanted to take the chuck apart to clean it on the one I was running. Old timer said "Don't do it kid, I'll slap the *** outta ya" Apparently those chucks have a bunch of balls in them like ball bearings,
    I'm not sure if it was because of the springs behind the Ball Bearings or because they are Precision Ball Bearings.

    I have an older Kwik-Way Dry type valve grinder I have been restoreing to original condition, and of course the first thing I did was completely disassemble the chuck and spindle.

    NO, the little ball bearings didn't jump out at me and fly all over the shop but a couple of them had rust spots on them. After cleaning out the rust they were just a little smaller in some spots then others, (.4995) rather then a true .5000

    Well the end result was about a .001 run out on the valve




  19. #19
    bob308 is offline Hot Rolled
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    i tried to show that test to some that just got their heads back from the shop. but the oil ran out so fast i could not time it.

    i don't have to check my heads that way.

  20. #20
    J. Randall is offline Stainless
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    Bob, I agree if you are in doubt{ somebody else did the work, or used head} that is a good way to have confidence in the install.
    James

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