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Kennametal tooling....How do you tell if it is designed for CNC or Manual lathe use?

caddguy

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Trying to expand my tooling...Kennametal makes a vast variety of tooling! Without knowing all the alpha numeric codes, is there an easy way to tell if the tool is designed to be used for a manual operation or CNC lathe? So, many tools....so little time! I am only interested in manual purpose variety.
 
AFAIK there is no clear distinction. You just have to pick the right tooling for the job at hand. CNMG may or may not work on your manual lathe e.g.

Regards.

Mike
 
If the part number contains <CNC>, then it is not to be used on a manual lathe. If the part number contains<MAN>, then it is only for use on manual lathes.

If the part number contains neither, then it can be used on any lathe, but the operator has to have sufficient knowledge to select the correct tooling for the machine and the part to be turned. The machine size, power, spindle speed, material to be turned and part geometry all have to be considered. Probably the tooling maker has an engineering staff that can give advice once the job is properly explained.

Larry
 
Trying to expand my tooling...Kennametal makes a vast variety of tooling! Without knowing all the alpha numeric codes, is there an easy way to tell if the tool is designed to be used for a manual operation or CNC lathe? So, many tools....so little time! I am only interested in manual purpose variety.

You need to talk to Curtis. exkenna on this site. He knows everything.
 
ok...so the tool holder isn't as much a CNC or Manual thing as the actual cutter. I have been told there is a difference in cutter inserts, possibly due to production needs..?
 
Pity that cataloges aren't set up to serach by suggested cutting speed range as, in practical terms, this is a decent indicator of whether a tool is suitable for manual lathe use. If the specified speeds fall within the range of your lathe and are sensible for the size & weight of work then it should be fine for manual use. Check depth of cut too. Many inserts are specified for quite shallow depths of cut with can be a pain on a manual machine as people are less patient with multiple passes than computers.

Most manual machines have limited guarding so you need to consider the chip quantity issue. I inadvertently bought some bargain price inserts that were right up at the top of the speed range of my machine, mis-interpreted m/s surface speed as ft/min. Rarely use them despite awsome finish 'cos you really need a spacesuit to keep the blue hot chips out. Don't forget lifetime too. Run correctly the high speed inserts don't last very long minutes to hour (ish) maybe but they shif a lot of metal in that time. Under-running on a manual machine frequently doesn't extend life by that much despite shifting much less metal. Some will die faster if under-run.

Clive
 
Years ago, Kennametal used to have 'qualified' toolholders which were of an accurate length so that back end was finish machined so it would sit properly against a turret end stop. I guess that would put the tool tip somewhere in a narrow range (depending on tip radius) of known lengths. They may have just gone ahead and done this to all their holders nowadays.
 
I have a 5hp Clausing 1301...I got 11 Kennametal tool holders on a garage sale. I would like to use them on my Dorian CXA tooling.
 
I'm a big Kennametal fan. I don't know if it's nationwide or just locally, but they're very aggressive with making great deals. Through Tool Crib, we can purchase a batch of 10 inserts and get a free holder, half the time I don't even need to ask for the holder.

As far as manual vs. CNC, like others said, the biggest thing is RPM. The other is power. You may have better luck using more positive geometry on a manual, for less cutting force. We use the same inserts on CNC or manual - less inventory that way... in a job shop environment, when you may run a stainless job after a tool steel job after an aluminum job, you would waste a lot of time and inventory trying to "optimize" even for these three main groups.

I will say, one insert I know that works great on less-beefy machines (our Haas CNCs and manual lathes) is by Ingersoll, it is a DNMG 432 VF-TT9080. Very large chipbreaker, cuts quite freely and yet it will take a cut. .125 to .150 per side at .012/rev. Whatever speed you want, 400, 500, 700 FPM even, if you have coolant... and they're cheap! I get mine for about $10 per insert.
 
Oh, if only it was that simple.

Yes, P is for positive. But some N inserts are molded with a positive relief contour at the cutting edges. Tricky, huh?

Larry

They take a negative rake holder and make it positive.

I call them "Gender Bender" inserts....:D
 
I have a 5hp Clausing 1301...I got 11 Kennametal tool holders on a garage sale. I would like to use them on my Dorian CXA tooling.

How good is the clutch and belts on your lathe. I've got a 1501 and IMHO, you're going to be better off with brazed carbide. You just don't have the HP to put most carbides to good use. Come on over and you can adjust my clutch for me, PITA.

JR
Don't have no I-phone, sent from my laptop in Brazil.
 
How good is the clutch and belts on your lathe.
Everything on mine has been completely torn down and rebuilt with new parts! I did my due diligence when re-assembling to start at the furthest point away from the master cylinder and purged/filled with new hyd fluid and so far haven't had a problem at all. My problem is the darn brake shoe...there is not a replacement available for the darn thing and no matter how I adjust it, it doesn't seat as well as I would like when engaged.
 
5hp is lots to make use of carbide inserts. I would never bother buying a positive toolholder, never had a need to, and negative rake inserts end up being positive if you select certain insert geometry, as has already been stated. Brazed carbides are such crap quaility (not coated) and you've always got to muck around sharpening the damn things.

My secret sauce is to only use a hand ground insert for a skimpy finishing cut on manual turning. I grind a hook type top rake on the tip of an old carbide insert, converting it into about a 30 degree positive rake, but it will only stand about .005" depth of cut. Razor sharp but fragile.
 








 
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