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02-10-2010, 08:21 PM #1
laquer for motor windings - what is it? where to buy?
Are there any good substitutes? I have a small universal motor I am repairing, and a few of the windings are a little loose on the rotor. I am pretty sure you can't use just any old laquer since it needs to be heat resistant, correct?
any suggestions on what I can use?
02-10-2010, 08:31 PM #2
This is probably what you want, Glyptal. That's the red paint inside motors. You can probably get a spray can of it fairly cheap.
If the varnish is off the wires themselves, it's rewind time. That varnish comes on the wire and can't be reapplied.
02-10-2010, 08:46 PM #3
You can use any high temp two part epoxy. Just be sure it is a clear or amber clear type as the grays and black have aluminum and metal powder in them. The actual "trickling resin" is called,, believe it or not, star wars resin! I don't have the other name, and company (starts with an E), were you can get it here with me now... but, if you want it... PM me and I'll get it for you and also post that info here. The smallest amount you can buy is a one gallon container... at around 50 bucks for the can. (that is just recently... it used to be 5 gallon cans). Also it is a two part solution and you have to buy the other part (activator) also, I don't recall its cost. Further it needs to be heat activated to setup.
I'd go with the higher temp clear epoxy.
Also...You won't find it under that name on a web search, at least the first 3 pages I looked at it didn't come up.
02-10-2010, 08:50 PM #4
I haven't used motor/transformer lacquer for a while but it always needed baking to dry properly.
There's a whole range of aerosol electrical laquers by makers such as Krylon (acrylic) Sprayon Clear Lacquer Electrical Spray - Krylon Products Group and CRC (urethane) Red Urethane from CRC
02-10-2010, 08:55 PM #5
5 Minutes Epoxi
I successfully used 5 minutes epoxi to repair loose stator windings in automotive alternators. Cheap worked great.
02-10-2010, 08:59 PM #6
Red glyptal is what you want. It has been the standard for many years.
You have to be a little careful with what you use as some winding wire is insulated with enamel.. Lacquer thinner can act a very effective enamel paint remover.
02-10-2010, 08:59 PM #7
Look at the above link...That is the Glyptal Corp. All they make is electrical specialty coatings.
Some are baking varnishes, some are air dry. Some are spray on, some are brush on, some are dip, some can be sprayed or brushed, some can be brushed or dipped, some all three. Depends on what the repair is as to which compound you use.
02-10-2010, 09:04 PM #8
When I cleaned out my lthe motor during my restoration, one of the guys I worked with at the time was a retired power company engineer who worked in the steam plants, not behind a desk. He advised me to use mineral spirits to clean out the windings, as that was what they used on their big generator windings. Said it was harmless to the Glyptal.
I used a fogger can on an air compressor and basically pressure washed my motor windings with mineral spirits. Let it dry out in the summer sun for about three days and never a problem since.
No laquer thinner, or other strong solvents. Mineral spirits will cut grease and oil, but not the wire insulation coatings.
02-10-2010, 09:59 PM #9
thanks guys! I will see what I can find. I will probably go with a little high temp epoxy, since I don't do this often. will have to look at that glyptal website in the am. time for a bite and off to bed.
02-10-2010, 11:04 PM #10
Glyptal from GC
It's available in small (2 oz??) bottles from GC (used to be General Cement) in Rockford, Illinois.
Should be available from the electronic supply houses.
I'll post the product number tomorrow when I can get at my bottle. I posted that information here several months ago, so the Search function should find it.
Mouser Electronics www.mouser.com
Newark Electronics www.newark.com
Allied Electronics www.alliedelec.com
02-11-2010, 11:48 AM #11
02-11-2010, 02:24 PM #12
02-11-2010, 06:58 PM #13
Anchorman, Keep in mind that these universal motor rotors spin in the range of 10 to 20K RPM. Be sure your coating operation spreads the film evenly over the whole winding scheme. If you don't, you may end up with an unmanagable thing that won't sit still. You could stick the rotor in the lathe and spin it slowly while you spray on the coating. Aerosoling epoxy might be a problem. The coating could run/droop during the bake process. If you have a rotissory attachment for your oven, now would be a good time to break it out. If you dab on epoxy in hopes that it will fill in and adhere to the windings, do a test on some wire strands and bake them. When cured, verify that the epoxy cant be broken out of the wire strands. I have not had good luck with epoxy adhering to enameled wire. Whatever you do to one side of the windings, regarding adding weight, you must add to the other side to compensate. Keep in mind also that if the fix material is not adhered to the existing windings, it can break away from the adjacent windings and pull the loose wires even further out. When you get the motor back together, set it up with a motor speed control and bring the speed up gradually to verify that you have performed an operable fix. Good luck. WWQ
02-11-2010, 07:14 PM #14
02-11-2010, 08:11 PM #15
Just to note, in addition to Leigh's electronics company links...
WELCOME TO ACK ELECTRONICS
That's Ack Radio, on 5th Ave S in Birmingham, AL. This is the last real live electronics supply house with a parts counter and guys who actually have a working knowledge of what they are selling. When my 1977 Litton microwave oven started turning on the magnetron whenever the door was closed, I dug into it, took out the SCR switch and hauled it down to Ack. The guy at the counter looked at what I brought in, cruised back to the bins, came back with EXACTLY what I needed and said "This ought to do the job." $5 and a few minutes of soldering and the Monsterwave, as I call it, was good as new, probably better.
If you are in the area (Marci and Anchorman), support these guys whenever possible. They are as much a remnant of the past as a country general mercantile store.
02-11-2010, 08:32 PM #16
Here's my previous comment on it (at the bottom of a rather long post):
GC calls it GLPT or Red Insulating Varnish because the Glyptol name is a registered trademark of somebody.
Mouser doesn't stock it, and Newark is out of stock.
You can order it directly from GC on their website www.gcelectronics.com
Just enter their catalog number 10-9002 in the search box.
02-11-2010, 08:37 PM #17
02-11-2010, 09:43 PM #18
we also have a little store, southern electronics here in opelika. I like to keep my business local when I can, but if I can't find anything here I will hit up the place in the ham next time I am up that way. when I first moved here 5 1/2 years ago they were in the process of selling all their NOS tubes for dirt cheap. sadly for me, some one else came in and got most of the popular audio tubes before I found the place.
we had a couple of great stores like that when I was growing up in wisconsin, but they slowly shut their doors one by one. I'm guessing there is still one left to support folks at the university there and some other people in town.
02-11-2010, 09:46 PM #19
this is a little direct drive motor from an old singer sewing machine. I'm not thinking it goes quite that fast. the weight issue is probably not all that critical, but even if it is I wasn't planning on adding much to it. just three loose wires on one winding that I wanted to secure, just in case. will probably go to the electronics store and buy a little bottle of the stuff leigh was talking about. was even thinking about trying some clear nail polish, but I would have to try that out on something else first to feel good about it. these were nice little motors, this one from about 1936 - they are easy to work on, don't have belts to slip, and don't seem to wear much, so I like to try to re wire them when the insulation on the leads coming in rots/melts with age, so they might get another 70 or 80 years of intermittent use.
02-11-2010, 09:47 PM #20