Which lathe to buy?

Plant machinist · Apr 14, 2017

New here so I hope this is in the right place. I am shopping for a lathe for my home shop. I am hoping to retire in 8 or 10 years and would like to have something to do side jobs on. First I found an Atlas Clausing 6300 series 12x36, $600.00. The seller has new screw for cross feed but I would buy the lead screw and compound screw too. It is a very clean lathe. It looks a lot lighter than I would like. Also found a 5914 Clausing that has surface rust on ways and cross slide as well with 3 jaw Chuck for $1700.00. I have only see pics of this one. I also found a 1957 Sound Bend 13 x 36. The owner says it was his dad's who passed away 4 years ago. He was a machinist by trade and has 3 and maybe a 4 jaw with it. He is not sure how much tooling is with it. I think I can buy this one for $1000.00. This guy also has a Bridgeport mill 9x32 table. The only thing he could tell me about it was it had 4477 on it. His dad ran both of these machines at home. $1000.00 for the mill too. I have been a machinist for near 30 years but I am used to running large machines. The smallest I run is a 15 x 54 Lablond. And the largest is a 32 inch swing Lodge and Shipley or a Cincinnati boring mill with a 5' Chuck. Was wondering if the 5914 or the 13x36 Lodge and Shipley is the better choice?

TeachMePlease · Apr 14, 2017

Just a heads up, while most of the machines you mentioned are ok, you might want to remove the reference to Atlas from your post with the edit function. That falls under small/home shop grade machines, and is not for discussion here, per the owner/admin/moderators.

Monarchist · Apr 14, 2017

Plant machinist said:
I have been a machinist for near 30 years but I am used to running large machines. The smallest I run is a 15 x 54 Lablond. And the largest is a 32 inch swing Lodge and Shipley or a Cincinnati boring mill with a 5' Chuck. Was wondering if the 5914 or the 13x36 Lodge and Shipley is the better choice?

- 20" to 6-foot here, mostly 30" to 50". Niles, L&S, Cinccy, Shepherd-Niles, W&S, Gisholt, etc..

You will be annoyed or frustrated half to death simply with the wimpish spaghetti beds, overall flex, limited grip, and lack of power of any of those hobby-grade machines, even if your 'side jobs' are small ones.

Sheldon S or R, the better Clausing-Colchesters are about the absolute lightest worth dragging home.

Not a lot wrong with a Pratt & Whitney, the smaller Large & Shapely, a Monarch - preferably longer-bed than a 10EE, such as Series 6X, older 12 C--, 16 C--, a Smart & Brown, a Hendey T&G... there are more (Rivett 10XX, Nebel Microturn, Mori, Wacheon, other clones....).

You have time enough, and Ohio is a good enough starting place, to scout yerself any of several of the 'Grand Old' legends or near-legends. Their very mass and power needs keep many of them in price ranges not that much higher than South Bents, but 30 years in, you already know how to transport, power, and tool them, ELSE find help right here and put it to use effectively, so...

My experience, you'll be the better for it, going with a proper lathe.

Anything South Bendish, Rockwellish, Loganish, Clausingish - even the "Regal" (hardly!) grade of LeBlond will likely just piss you off, and not just the one time. Every day you walk up to it until you finally tire of the annoyance and kick it out the door.

TDegenhart · Apr 14, 2017

I would stay away from the 5914, the hydraulic variable speed transmission is problematic and spare parts are not available.

I concur with the heavier lathes, but a light machine is nice for small work. My choice is a Monarch for the heavy work and a HLV-H or knock off for the light work.

Edit: Regarding the Sheldon R13,15 machines, they used an integral motor/transmission. The two machines I looked at both had a problem with shift lever, whether the problem was merely a loose fitting or damage in the transmission is unknown. Be aware that there are no parts available for the drive unit.

Tom

JohnEvans · Apr 14, 2017

If the BP # is off the knee that would be a round ram from the late 40s,maybe even a "M" head. Pass if M head.

Derek Smalls · Apr 14, 2017

What Monarchist said, +1. I come from the same background, L&S, ATW, W&S, and Bullard are very much "normal" to me, little toy things that groan, squeal, and stall every time you "try" to do something are not.
Like Bill said, larger more "industrial" machines are often much cheaper than the home shop toys which are very sought after.
I now own a 16" Reed Prentice(actually close to 20" of measured swing) and a L&S 10" High Turn. The Reed Prentice is light compared to the others I mentioned earlier, but every bit a "real" lathe and very capable. The High Turn, well Lodge & Shipley never believed in making anything light. Every time I look at it I'm in awe of how much metal you can put into such a small capacity machine if you really put your mind to it!

Monarchist · Apr 14, 2017

Derek Smalls said:
The High Turn, well Lodge & Shipley never believed in making anything light. Every time I look at it I'm in awe of how much metal you can put into such a small capacity machine if you really put your mind to it!

LOL! Had your first-ever exposure to machine halls been at Watertown Arsenal, running balls-to-the walls 1950-51 to crank out artillery for the Korean War effort, you'd have seen just how much MORE metal L&S and the other Grand-Olds could crank into the railway cars that hauled chip away 24 hours a day.

They 'paid back' their mass-ration and many orders of magnitude over in cannon, shaft, hub, and chip.

rjs44032 · Apr 14, 2017

While I agree with what folks here said about industrial grade machines, you also have to consider the cost and maintenance of the powering it. A 1HP-3HP VFD is not earth shattering in cost if it goes in the middle of a job. However if you have to power 5HP-10HP you have to consider different options for sustainability like RPC etc. Currently all my machines fall into the 1HP-3HP category and I do have to put up with some of the drawbacks mentioned. But I don't worry about coughing up $150 for a new supply if necessary. Just be sure you're sitting down if you have to price one for 10HP machine.

Best Regards,
Bob

Monarchist · Apr 14, 2017

rjs44032 said:
While I agree with what folks here said about industrial grade machines, you also have to consider the cost and maintenance of the powering it. A 1HP-3HP VFD is not earth shattering in cost if it goes in the middle of a job. However if you have to power 5HP-10HP you have to consider different options for sustainability like RPC etc. Currently all my machines fall into the 1HP-3HP category and I do have to put up with some of the drawbacks mentioned. But I don't worry about coughing up $150 for a new supply if necessary. Just be sure you're sitting down if you have to price one for 10HP machine.

Best Regards,
Bob

Phht.. my 10 HP used 'blue cabinet' Phase-Perfect, 10 HP all-new-parts RPC combined cost less than the collet tooling investment alone for one of the two 10EE. Hard to hurt either one of those, properly fused and breakered.

VFD? You wants 'features' you pays for and takes the risk of all that out of plain view complexity inside the innocent-looking box.

'Stealth PITA' and maintenance time-bombs, VFD can be. Got a critical use, stock spare cash, not spare VFD. The silly caps age.

DDoug · Apr 15, 2017

TDegenhart said:
Edit: Regarding the Sheldon R13,15 machines, they used an integral motor/transmission. The two machines I looked at both had a problem with shift lever, whether the problem was merely a loose fitting or damage in the transmission is unknown. Be aware that there are no parts available for the drive unit.

Tom

I have an R15, the headstock has only a "hi-lo" gear change and the parts are available, friend needed new phenolic gear.
Gearbox (4-speed) in base is belt driven input, and belt driven up to headstock.

TDegenhart · Apr 15, 2017

a

digger doug said:
I have an R15, the headstock has only a "hi-lo" gear change and the parts are available, friend needed new phenolic gear.
Gearbox (4-speed) in base is belt driven input, and belt driven up to headstock.

The unit I looked at was all one piece, motor and gearbox. I tried to find a source of parts as I was looking to buy it.

Tom

MrSteve · Apr 15, 2017

JohnEvans said:
If the BP # is off the knee that would be a round ram from the late 40s,maybe even a "M" head. Pass if M head.

We have a BP at work, Round Ram & M Head (no back gear, 1/2" MT-2 collet, though they came in very similar B&S 7 collet too) 44xx S/N on the knee that I dated to April 1944.
I'd hold out for later than about '58(?) when J head (3/4" R-8 collet & back gear).

SeaMoss · Apr 15, 2017

Okay, I'ma gonna go against the grain here. My fave lathe was a Pacemaker but for a home shop at this point in life I'd probably take the South Bend with the flat belt. They won't take much of a cut but these days maybe I won't, either. With the belt drive they are quiet (except for the feed gears but you can drop those out easy), they get really nice finishes because the belt is smooth and plain bearings in the headstock, the controls are in the right places and handy ... I don't like to admit this in public but for light foodling around I'd take the SB.

Now if the choice was between a Model B Pacemaker or Hardinge, that'd be a tougher choice ... and I'm gonna get a lot of flack here but you couldn't give me a 10EE. I really don't like those. They are as clunky as a big lathe to run but you can't fit anything into them. Waste of space, imo.

For a mill, if you don't know about them, watch out for Gortons. Great mill, better than a Bridgeport but not famous so the prices are lower. Much lower. I've seen some smokin' deals on Gorton 1-22's.

Get one with a tracer. Cheap cnc

72bwhite · Apr 16, 2017

Got a 13 inch hydra shift it's ok but I really wish I had sprung
for the 17 inch web mori clone

DDoug · Apr 16, 2017

TDegenhart said:
a

The unit I looked at was all one piece, motor and gearbox. I tried to find a source of parts as I was looking to buy it.

Tom

Was the motor/gearbox in the base ?

If so, mine had a input pulley, maybe yours had a flange motor ?
And maybe they can be used either way (remove flange, add pulley to input shaft).

Plant machinist · Apr 16, 2017

Definitely going to hold out for the newer J model mill. Was at a friend's Saturday and looked at his Clausing 15x48. It looked to be a sturdy machine too. Now debating on one of those or the South Bend

Plant machinist · Apr 16, 2017

Need help finding edit function.

Monarchist · Apr 16, 2017

Plant machinist said:
Need help finding edit function.

On any post YOU originated, it appears automagically, lower right.

But only for about 23 hours.

After that, the Database has cycled - maybe even more than once - and only a Moderator can call-up the extra CPU cycles to do an 'edit' of an old post. They don't often do that, even when asked.

Less work to let a poster clarify himself or correct errors in a later post - partly because that's more likely to actually be noticed and READ by viewers. 'Too many' PM'ers don't read an entire thread to begin with.

Even fewer who have done so see any need to 'go back' and re-read.
.

rjs44032 · Apr 16, 2017

Plant machinist said:
Definitely going to hold out for the newer J model mill. Was at a friend's Saturday and looked at his Clausing 15x48. It looked to be a sturdy machine too. Now debating on one of those or the South Bend

Since you're an experienced machinist and in Ohio, I would suggest looking at a Sheldon rather than a South Bend. Nothing against South Bend, but for price around here you can get into a Sheldon that's arguably a better machine for nearly half what you'll pay for a South Bend in decent shape. Only drawback is they are less popular so parts are less readily available. But most do show up on Ebay from time to time.

Tiny disclaimer: I am a Sheldon owner and love it. However, I did have the skills to make the parts it needed to get it running again. If I had it to do over, I would have held out for an M or R series Sheldon or 10EE.

Best Regards,
Bob

Plant machinist · Apr 16, 2017

I thought maybe the edit function would be gone by now like in other forums. I have seen a few Sheldon's advertised but have had any experience with them. Will have to do some research. Thanks for the advice Bob.

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