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Lathe Chucks: We don't make them anymore.

A_Pmech

Stainless
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Central IL, USA
In this thread I asked for some opinions on 3-jaw and 6-jaw chucks. Initially, I was interested in the Buck semi-steel BVC series chucks as I had assumed they were still made in the USA. In fact, I called Buck Chuck to ask about the country of origin of their current products, but have yet to receive a response.

So, I called Jennifer at MSC Industrial supply. Jennifer told me that the flagship forged steel ATSC "Set True" Buck chucks are now MADE IN TAIWAN!. That explains these photos taken several years ago by Jon_Spear and posted in the thread Is Buck Chuck Still With Us?

Buck is now Chinese Junk at a premium (4x markup) price!

DSC00723.jpg


Jon_Spear said:
Below are some of the replacement jaws that came with the chuck. The paper pieces in which they were wrapped have no English written on them.

DSC00724.jpg


Oh, and by the way... Buck chuck changed the design of their chucks when they moved production to China. Thus, new Chinese parts will not replace old, worn out USA parts. You have to buy a whole new chuck!

Current Buck Chuck Product Catalog Page 4 said:
The chart to the left refers to the replacement options for
the obsolete AT+ model of chucks. The ATSC was designed
as a replacement for this chuck - the components are not
interchangeable, but the ATSC can be mounted to the
existing adapter plate from your AT+ chuck.

Not only are Buck Chucks now made in Taiwan, but the Pratt Burnerd chucks listed in the 2006/2007 MSC catalog, such as item# 08573289 (made in UK) have been discontinued. The new MSC item# is 85029205 and they're made in China now too!

In fact, every lathe chuck listed in the 2006/2007 MSC catalog except for the Rohm and Bison brands are now made in Asia!

With last year's closure of the Jacobs chuck plant, we don't make drill chucks here any any longer. Does anybody in this country still make a damned lathe chuck?
 
Where does Kalamazoo make theirs? Kalamazoo Chuck Manufacturing - 888-727-4703 - Workholding - Power Chucks, Manual Chucks, Custom Chucks, Chuck Repair, Chuck Service, Chuck Jaws
It says USA... but it would be interesting to know where all the parts may come from.

From their catalog:

Kalamazoo Chuck Company said:
KCM manual chucks are a direct replacement for all name brand manual chucks, are top quality products with competitive pricing, and on time delivery.
Our products are 100% U.S. Manufactured!

Excellent! Thanks for the lead Mr. Marks! I'll be giving them a call in the morning.

Are there any other USA lathe chuck manufacturers?
 
Talked to the salesman yesterday. While holding their brochures I asked country of origin.

"Smaller chucks are Taiwan and India, but they are good, and the largest ones are still US made" Of course any size I would buy is floated over. I asked why the prices arent lower, I then threw the catalogue back and kept walking.
 
Talked to the salesman yesterday. While holding their brochures I asked country of origin.

"Smaller chucks are Taiwan and India, but they are good, and the largest ones are still US made" Of course any size I would buy is floated over. I asked why the prices arent lower, I then threw the catalogue back and kept walking.

Hi Mebfab,

I take it you're referring to Buck Chuck?
 
I don't have a problem with your being disgusted but it seems you are confusing China and Taiwan as being the same. They aren't. Taiwan is an independent country with a capitalist government. China is a bunch of Communists.
 
Yes buck.

My problem is not their system of government. it is;

1 that they are not US manufactured
2 the country of origin though democratic is chinese owned
3 the price of manufacture dropped but the retail price didnt. Or at least not much
4 if we loose much more that will be the end of us.
 
Just did a quick search. First online source. 6" 3 jaw adjust tru. Flat back


$1140 plus shipping!!! They have to be trolling for suckers! Not even MikeKandU would charge that
 
Yes buck.

My problem is not their system of government. it is;

1 that they are not US manufactured
2 the country of origin though democratic is chinese owned
3 the price of manufacture dropped but the retail price didnt. Or at least not much
4 if we loose much more that will be the end of us.

Ahah, thanks for the clarification.

Agreed with Mebfab entirely. I don't give a damn about Taiwan's government.
 
I have a Taiwan made Buck chuck. Although it works fine, you can certainly tell that fit and finish is far below what the American models used to be. How do I know ??? Because I've bought American models. Two of them in the past 20 years. Both were excellent in every way. The 8" Buck model I bought two years ago had jaws that were so sharp you had to deburr and stone them in order to keep from cutting yourself. I might add that I did NOT know that I wasn't buying an American chuck until it arrived in my shop. I was extremely disappointed.

We might as well all face the fact that the war is lost and we virtually make nothing here anymore.




Frank
 
Yes buck.

My problem is not their system of government. it is;

1 that they are not US manufactured
2 the country of origin though democratic is chinese owned
3 the price of manufacture dropped but the retail price didnt. Or at least not much
4 if we loose much more that will be the end of us.

I think it is point 3 I'd be most concerned about. There's nothing long with importing goods, particularly in this case where they're being used in local production (presumably), but the fact they're not being produced locally means they would want to be available more cheaply. Indeed given the cost differential they should be significantly cheaper! The fact they're not means a few are lining their pockets at the expense of many. Perhaps the answer is to bypass "the few" ie if you MUST buy foreign goods deal directly with the source or as close to it as you can and bypass the locals who are not adding any value to the deal.

Pete
 
I have a 10" and 12" 3 jaw, and a 15" 6 jaw Kallamazoo.

I beleive the story goes that they are ex-Buck Chuck people.



---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
A_PMech,

I was at EASTEC a couple of weeks ago (I don't remember the name of the machine tool manufacturers show in your area) and there were several US manufacturers of high quality chucks. They look nothing like the 6-jaw you picture above. These were highly specialized pneumatic and hydraulic chucks for CNC and screw machine work. Everyone was beautifully made and when compared to a brand new Buck or Pratt-Bernerd (or whatever you chuck of choice is) it made the older style 3, 4, and 6-jaw chucks look like something from the stone age.

Each bare chuck was in the multi-thousand dollar range... even more once some jaws were fitted. These are not old technology but new and under patent. Once something comes out from under patent and is sufficiently popular you can bet that production will move to where it costs the least.

So yes, the US still makes chucks but they aren't anything like what you are used to.

For example: Northfield Precision Instruments makes chucks that look like this:

super9-big.jpg

and this
custom9-big.jpg



-DU-
 
Last edited:
I agree with most points here, and try to buy american when I can.

But what, exactly, makes you think it costs 1/4 as much to manufacture in Taiwan?

Taiwanese wages are usually at least 1/2 US wages, and often as much as 3/4. Of course, this is 3/4 of "average" american wages, not the minimum wage they try to pay in many US factories- the "average" american wages includes high paying jobs like plumber, auto mechanic, lawyer, and hedge fund owner in its calculations.

Then, Taiwan actually is much more like a first world nation than we are, in many ways.
All workers get unemployment insurance (employer paid) a FULL EXTRA MONTH of pay every year as a bonus, Full no cost to the employee health care, very low cost college tuition, and a good retirement package.
Taiwan is much more unionized than the USA.

Real estate in taiwan is not cheap- its a very small place, and pretty crowded.
Taxes are not exactly non-existent there, either.
They have environmental and worker safety laws there, and they are enforced.

In short, while it may be a bit cheaper to manufacture in Taiwan, its certainly not 1/4 the price, or, probably, even half the price.

Taiwan is one of the most modern manufacturing countries, with most companies totally CNC, as they make so much CNC there. In all likelyhood, the factory in Taiwan that makes Buck Chucks is much more modern, and has far fewer low wage unskilled employees, than the one in the USA did.

I dont know the money decisions Buck made, or why. But I would guess that just cheaper wages was not a huge factor. Probably Taiwan has better government supports for industry, better loan terms that are easier to get to build new factories, and both banks and private individuals there are willing to invest in manufacturing- Taiwan currently has as many, if not more, Meehanite licensed foundries as we do in the entire USA. This, in a country the size of Maryland and Delaware combined. All of this is the result of government attitudes, and private industry attitudes, in short, an industrial policy, which we dont have here.
 
I dont know the money decisions Buck made, or why. But I would guess that just cheaper wages was not a huge factor.


I'm bet'n it wasn't a decission "that Buck made".

I don't know the ins and outs of "Buck", but many of the US "name brands" had gone out of business by trying to compete with imports as everyone is more interested in getting the best price than careing where stuff is made at. (look around the average shop)

The Asians come in with all our $ and need some place to spend them. Otherwise what good is our $ to them at all?

So they buy up our "brand Names" and take them back home and start shipping their product in under that name.

AFAIK that can be said for Cuschman, Buck, Sorel, etc 'till the cows come home and you still wouldn't be done.

David - your comparing hydraulic CNC chucks to manual scroll chucks. Totally diff app. Has little to doo with "new", and everything to doo with production. Any new scroll chuck for a manual lathe (or similar app) will not look all that diff from a 1910 model.


------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I recently bought a set of replacment top jaws for my 8" Buck 3-jaw, and was very disappointed. The set had a 60 deg. included angle to the center, like a 6-jaw chuck would have, and were poorly finished, and sharp edges. I called Buck, and was told that is how all the replacment jaws are made. I bought a set of new Bison jaws, they fit better, and were a lot nicer.

Seems that corperate America is what is selling us down the road. I wish more of our manufacturing would follow Kurt's lead and keep the quality, and manufacture of products here.

CM
 
Agree with most of the above, though a couple of points:

-- Ries' comment about average wages including hedge fund owners - no way, they don't make wages, they make capital gains, for which (up to now) they have only been taxed 15% rather than the 35-40% that a "payroll" compensated person would pay at that income level. This has contributed significantly to the huge increase in difference between the bottom and the top of the income scale over the last 10-15 years.

-- The desision made by Buck was probably made because they had several things working against them, and they didn't want to invest money to fix the ones that might be fixed. I don't know if they are publicly traded or not, but shareholders have much to do in the long term with what ends up happening at a company. If costs keep rising, and competitive product keeps coming into the market and taking market share, then profit margins keep getting smaller.
The choice is either bite the bullet and invest to become more efficient, abandon the market to competitors, or find cheaper alternatives to current methods of production. Gross profit has to be sufficient to cover the costs of operation, and then provide something left over as net. We all know what has happened to medical costs, steel has gone up about 2.5-3x in 10 years, and those pesky workers keep expecting raises and a better standard of living. Constant expectations of growth and improvement of living standards contribute to this picture significantly, as well as unreasonable expectations that everyone can own a house, have 3 cars, and only have to work 40 hours a week.

It's highly unfortunate that our financial wizards put us in this recent tailspin, but that is the classic example of something for nothing, which is completely unsustainable as an economic model. Just selling "deals" and "structured equities" and generating commissions and fees for moving money around doesn't create value for anyone except for the deal-maker's checking account.
 
Again, I have no problem with your problem with foreign manufacture. But you should care about their politics just like you would care if your daughter was dating a doctor or a felon. I hate to tell you - Taiwan will never pose much of athreat economically or politically to the US. But China sure will.

You're right - the prices are hardly any better with foreign manufacture. That's because the geniuses who run businesses have figured out they can make more money to put in their pockets - not to pass the savings onto you.
 








 
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