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Thread: Lathe lift
04-23-2012, 03:51 AM #1
I have just purchased a new lathe and it should be delivered to me over the next day or so. I will have to use an engine lift to move it to it's workshop position. I asked the people I got it from how they sling them and was told to lift at one end under the chuck and around the bed at the other end. This doesn't sound right to me. Can anyone throw any light on this? The company I bought off sell a lot of lathes, this shipment that just came into the country totalled 400 machines so they have experience in lifting them but it just seems bad practise to me. I can only get a forklift in some of the way.
04-23-2012, 04:50 AM #2
the discussion is long and heated
many (as i ) see this as a suitable yet not ideal practice
many more see it as pure evil
a sling though the web of the bed without wraping any screws or such is one other way but its harder to come up with a perfect balance
04-23-2012, 05:41 AM #3
Yes, that is my immediate thought, as for balancing, a come-along slung picking up the bed end can be shortened or lengthened to balance - assuming I can get at the bed for a lift.
04-23-2012, 06:04 AM #4
Have you considered putting the lathe on pipe rollers, instead of lifting it completely off the ground?
04-23-2012, 06:39 AM #5
04-23-2012, 08:06 AM #6
04-23-2012, 08:29 AM #7
Given your talking about an engine lift. I’d assume it not anything too heavy. And the mention of 400 machines, I’d be thinking Ron M or H & F
Check it for lifting holes at each end of the bed. But failing that, you can safely lift a lathe by the bed and the spindle. I have this argument with my crane truck guy, but he does this daily. We only argue once every 6 - 7 years when he is moving my gear.
Any half reasonable labourer can figure out how to drop a soft sling through the bed or around the bed, use packing timbers if you have to protect feed & screw rods.
If you’re going to use the spindle as a second leg to your rigging, don’t use the cross web, or web way out near the tailstock. Find the one near the centre of the bed.
If you only lifted by that one leg through the bed, at about the centre distance, the tailstock end will lift first. However if you drop an adjustable second leg to the spindle, it takes bugger all force to re-establish balance.In theory its the difference between the mass of the head stock and the tailstock, plus any offset due to the headstock sitting on dead ways.
Headstock end will always be heavier, but only by a margin of 10 – 20 %. If you have the bulk of the weight hung by one sling over the centre, and bugger all just to accommodate the off balance of the headstock, ifyou happened to calculate it, there will be negligible load on the spindle.
If you’re of the school (Which comes next). That picking up the bed of something within the range of an engine crane, somehow bends the bed, I’m at a total loose to explain that.
I’ve had that demonstrated by my crane truck guy, put a sling about mid span in the bed, I can physically lift the head stock end tobring it back into balance. I’d call that a 100 kg’s or less. A second legdropped back to the spindle doesn’t mean you are lifting anywhere near the fullload of the machine.
That’s totally at odds with if you put your primary strap /sling right down the end where the tail stock would be. That would be 40% load at the head stock, 60% load at the spindle. Avoid that by putting your primary strap about middle of bed, and your secondary strap just as a counter balance you won’t have a problem.
04-23-2012, 09:01 AM #8
Try renting a pair of safe dollies. One on each end cranked together with ratchet straps will pick it up and move it easily. Not worth fretting over messing it up some way for a few dollars to the rental store. A buddy who deals in used machinery offered to loan me his set when I move the Mori.
04-23-2012, 09:01 AM #9
It's an Hare & Forbes, 900 centres and 595 kg. which is not much strain on the bed - unless it drops - my only concern was for the bearings but putting it in perspective it's not a big load. Last lot of lathes I moved was when I was at TAFE and we were given 6 lathes by a mining company that used to have it's own training school. I did all the lifting with their forklift ( I had just left working there and was still site accredited). Didn't do them any harm whatsoever. But when it's your own money you tend to stop and think of all the possibilities a bit more.
04-23-2012, 09:05 AM #10
Jim_Lou, I think a trip to the machinery hire tomorrow monring is a good idea, I'm sure they'll have something.
04-23-2012, 10:54 AM #11
You haven't mentioned what lathe you will be moving, but issues of clearance with an engine hoist also may come up, so you need to plan ahead for them. The legs of the hoist have to fit into the space (if any) in the cabinet beneath the lathe. Or, if that isn't possible because of the design, the hoist has to have a reach long enough to get to the center of the lathe when the hoist is brought in from the end, keeping in mind that the rating of the hoist will be less than nominal when the boom is fully extended (e.g. a "2T" hoist will be rated at less than 1T).
I moved an 11" Logan into my garage a year ago using an engine hoist without problem (basically rigged like in the video, but also with side-to-side straps). For reasons someone else already mentioned I wasn't worried that this would bend the ways. After installing it I used my Starrett Master Precision Level to level the bed to within 0.0005"/ft., which directly shows that the ways hadn't been distorted.
04-23-2012, 11:41 AM #12
I know a machine tool dealer in Vegas that has been moving lathes with the way machtool described for over 30 years without a problem.
I have helped with several.
The only difference is that he uses straps instead of chains, straps don't put little dings in the ways like a chain will, and they usually give some warning before they fail.
I took my 11" Logan apart in the drive to clean and paint it and reassembled it in place.
Two healthy guys can move a Logan by themselves with no wheels, bars, come-alongs or any other fancy stuff.
04-23-2012, 11:47 AM #13
I have seen one dropped large lathe that they tried to just forklift under the bed. Equally there's plenty of picks on the web of rolled over lathes, badly damaged and lucky escape stories! there top heavy and narrow items hence lifting is far safer than pushing on any kind of sKate - dolly.
If your worried about lifting it by the spindle, don't try to ever cut metal with it as the forces will be a lot more!
04-23-2012, 01:51 PM #14
04-23-2012, 03:02 PM #15
To get my Leblond 17x40" in my garage, a buddy and I jacked it up with a railroad jack to get it sitting on pipes (balance point was about as close to the spindle as possible under the bed ways). We rolled it out of the shop it was sitting in and used a forklift to get it on the roll-off trailer. Rolled it off the trailer and into my garage with the winch and the pipes, and scooted it right into the back corner of my garage. 1" schedule 40 pipes did a fine job, add a foot of extra length for when the pipes start rolling crooked, I learned this one the hard way, of course
04-23-2012, 03:27 PM #16
I have moved much heavier machines than the one in the video. The trucking company people were idiots. First, with modern straps and ratchet tiedowns, there is no place for chains in the operation. I couldn't tell for sure with blurry pictures going by, but it looks like there was no strap between the tailstock and the end of the bed. More than one has rattled off on the highway and been lost forever. There is simply no need to lift by the spindle. You can argue about whether it will hurt it forever, but the fact remains that there is no reason to take a chance.
04-23-2012, 04:05 PM #17
Attached are two diagrams showing rigging. Notes:
(1) remove the chuck first, never lift a lathe by the chuck/spindle, or any other precision part
(2) lathe should be lifted by the bed
(3) never strap over the outside of the bed; either strap under the lead screw and drive shaft as in the diagram or better, through the openings in the bed (not shown)
(4) as shown in the rigging diagram the load is asymmetric, therefore the strap lengths must be carefully adjusted to be the proper length so the center of gravity of the lathe is directly below the lift hook
04-23-2012, 06:58 PM #18
I intend using soft slings, I don't want chain near the new paint job. I have no problem lifting it - I have a basic rigging ticket - I was just concerned about the stress on the bearings. I will hire whatever I need to do the job safely. I'll post some pics of it when it's done.
04-23-2012, 07:40 PM #19
04-23-2012, 09:10 PM #20
DITTO DITTO opscimc's point about top heavy lathes lifted as drawn. Without a separate pair or two of snubber slings, one of which could safely go through the spindle as its only
purpose is to prevent the headstock from doing a 180 flipover. Nicer if there were a ringbolt atop the head stock, not for the lift but for a snubber sling any sound attach point is
ok. A lift as JSCPM diagrammed is a good start for the power lift but a snubber is mandatory. The snubber can be a bit slack as all it does is restrain the headstock from flipping over.