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Let's talk "Keyseaters" Shall We?

  • Thread starter Ox
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Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
Northwest Ohio
I see two types:

A) Those that use a wedge system and (what appears to be a) single blade. (Mits & Mer)
&
B) Those that use a broach like it's a saw blade. (What appears to be most everybody else)


Most interested in the bigger M&M units. (1.5" max or bigger)


I am guessing that most of the time that these may be old and dirty, but still in good shape from only occasional use?

Is there much to wear out on these?

I have eyeballed a few vids. Looked at several For Sale ads.
Not sure 100% what I am looking at on the tooling side, but I am guessing that you must have your tooling for a certain slot width, and then you may have to make or scrounge a bushing for your hole D and H to match it?

The #2's seem to be expected to fetch good $, while the bigger ones seem to be much cheaper.
Is this b/c most folks don't want that big animal taking up that whole dark corner by it'self?
And likely the tooling is more too?


What doo you have to say about this?


--------------------

Strokin'!
Ox
 
I use both types at work, A Hanford Davis max key 1.5" and the larger Mitts Merrill max key 3.5" 20K lb. table capacity. Keep in mind I use old equipment in a shop where the management priorities had changed years before I was hired on and this no way reflects the machines that are well maintained. The Davis is a very easy to use machine and usually get the crap used out of it. The Mitts usually gets used once in a blue moon. Mitts Merrill tooling is simple to sharpen with a little jig and once the limits are met you replace. We had a hydraulic issue on the mitts no maintenance caused a failure in the system. The Mitts uses two clamps to locate the part while the Davis is a type of bushing for locating. We had a smaller Mitts, but management put a feather in their hat and tossed it out to make it look like they where doing some reorganization. The smaller hydraulic Mitts worked ok, the mechanical part of it was a PITA. The larger one is PLC controlled and very easy to use set and forget.
 
We have a DC Morrison mechanical,dead nuts simple,doesn't need any bushings just slotted arbors to hold the cutting inserts.They also make a adapter to hold the DuMont type broaches for small bores.Kind of a waste as its quicker to use the press if you have the sets with the bushings. I think it will do 1 1/4".
 
The M&M chucks the workpiece by the bore which is way more accurate.
Some of the larger M&M need a pit in the floor for the stroke.
The cutters for the DC Morrison are probably the least expensive to purchase and can be easily resharpened.
If you find a Baker Brothers keyseater made in Teledo Ohio they are well made and can be easily converted to use the DC Morrison cutters.
Don't let the high prices scare you. I've bought 4 different keyseaters in Ohio and the most I paid was $300. Of course all were Flat belt driven at those prices.
The Dc Morrison would be the easiest to resell when you go to get rid of it. Well supported by the factory accross the river from Cincinnati.
 
Just a question for everyone; can you get cutters for the Baker keyseaters anymore and if so, where? If not would someone let me know how to convert it; I have a Baker Brothers coming in next week, think it's a # 25 but I do need tooling for it. Still confused about the model # but it was on a you tube video under baker keyseater am-11148; can anyone clue me in on this and thanks in advance.
 
A slotter is faster IMHO On this video I do a 16mm slot within 1min machinetime And it has a chuck to clamp the workpiece so it is very quick to clamp
Also this one is lateron modified with a DRO with a programmable contact So it stops when it reaches the set depth of cut
For the real big slots you need a hydraulic keyseater of coarce

Peter from holland


 
Not a fan of the DC Morrison, some of the larger cutter widths are the ragged edge of the machines/cutter bars capacity. And the feed system is cheesy as hell.

A slotter would beat it hands down, provided it could handle the capacity, which is where the Morrison shines a little in the size of the work it can accept and still be such a small machine.
 
What kind of cutters do the baker brothers machines use? I have some cutters that have the hole through them and are held in place by the set screw; would these work in the baker brothers keyseater or does it take something special?
 
Ox: The Mitts & Merrill we had in the shop that I spent most of my years was one that had a large hydraulic cylinder in the floor. It had up to a 3" post and used up to 2" cutters. We did a lot of work on it. It used step-bushings or tapered collars to line on holes. We also made an angle fixture to cut tapered keys. Rarely used it for any thing smaller than 1/2" although it had cutters down to 1/8". Posts as small as 1.25 (I think) used cutter bars with interchangeably cutter inserts. Each sized post had a size/range of cutter inserts. It was a very versatile machine. Good luck.

JH
 
Repaired a M&M mechanical type. If it slams on the stroke there is a problem. But it still can be brought back to form with a little work.
If you find one look for the extra posts and the matched sets of step-bushings, one for the top and bottom of the bore of the part. The step-bushings look like a stack of different diameters with a slot to match the bar. What's nice is the step-bushings can be turned for other diameters if there is stock on the diameters. Or just make a new set.

Hydraulic
#....... Max keyway... Max Keyway Length... HP.......Weight
K-1212........ 1 1/4" ........................12"..... 5 1/2"...... 5K
K-2024 .............2" .........................24" .....7 1/2" .... 10K
K-3530 ......3 1/2".......................... 30" ....10 ...........20K

Mechanical
2, 3, 3A, and 4

Parts that go with the keyseater:
Posts, Tool Bars, Feed Wedges, Taper Wedges, Post Adapter, Top Clamp, Step Bushings, Expansion Bushings, and of course the Cutters that have the long name of Inserted Dovetail Type Cutters.
A manual for the Mitts is a must.
If you get a Mitts manuals and parts may ( or not) be available from:
Mitts and Merrill LP Fromag Group Box 691 Harvard, IL. 60033 815 943 3303
This contact info is from fifteen years ago.....
John
 
What kind of cutters do the baker brothers machines use? I have some cutters that have the hole through them and are held in place by the set screw; would these work in the baker brothers keyseater or does it take something special?

Baker keyseaters use a single tooth tool with a rectangular shank that goes thru a slot in the mandrel. I've got a bunch of them for an old baker I've had for years but never have used. IIRC they're all made by Star Cutter. Will look at the shop to make sure of the brand name. Looked at Star Cutter's site and it appears they don't make the single tooth keyway cutters now.

The baker machines are mechanical. On about anything other than the smallest ones, the ram travels below floor level so you either have to raise the machine up a foot or so, or put a hole in the floor. Based on the height of the machine as it sits flat on the floor, raising it up would put the table at a height that would be difficult for setup purposes.

There's also a bunch of complex linkage that interconnects the table motion to the ram travel. Probably 30 wear points. Table moves into the cutter for the cut and away from the cutter as it moves up for the next stroke. If a person was gonna use one of these much, it would probably be worthwhile to replace the mechanical stroking mechanism with a hydraulic pump and cylinder, and replace the table motion with a ball screw, stepper, and Mach 3 or similar PC CNC. Not for faster operation, but for more reliability. Per the man who gave me the one I have, the feed is a ratcheting deal, and if it misses a tooth or jumps a tooth things get ugly real fast as the feed per stroke gets doubled or tripled for that stroke.
 
Thank you for the Green machine. I know know what a Key Seater is. Never have seen one. Just like a one tooth saw. ;)

Thank's Ox...

Stan-
 
A slotter is faster IMHO On this video I do a 16mm slot within 1min machinetime And it has a chuck to clamp the workpiece so it is very quick to clamp
Also this one is lateron modified with a DRO with a programmable contact So it stops when it reaches the set depth of cut
For the real big slots you need a hydraulic keyseater of coarce

Peter from holland



Those guys in Holland have some nice machines. Very Cool! Thanks Peter for the view.
Regards,
Stan-
 
Metlmuncher; if you want to get rid of the tooling that you have let me know. You aren't but about 2.5 hours from me; I was up that way about a month ago picking apples at sky top orchard.
 








 
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