Looking for rigid spray foam---harder than "Great Stuff" for instance, for shipping - Page 2
Largest Manufacturing Technology
Community On The Web
Close
Login to Your Account

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 36 of 36
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    820
    Likes (Received)
    1659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I just told you... in the post you quoted from me.....

    BTW you always wrap your part in a bag before putting
    it in the box, wether using peanuts, can foam, IP professional
    stuff....whatever.
    Yes, that binder you mentioned---diluted "Elmer's" glue might work well. There could be other options though. For instance polyurethane varnishes or similar products might be a good option. Mixing the binder and the peanuts or pellets together would likely present challenges and setup also would have to be worked out.

    Denis

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    12,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1303
    Likes (Received)
    2386

    Default

    If you call instapak you can get the number of your area sales/service rep, who will know who in your area have foam machines and could foam your shipments for you.

    Mine brought me one of these new 'simple' bag machines to test for a month. The machine rents by the month for about the same amount as my present service contract and all I would have had to buy was the chemicals and the plastic roll of bag material. We elected to stay with the machine we already own but this was a slick setup for occasional use. - Instapak Simple™ Foam in Bag Packaging System - YouTube

    I've shipped ballscrews a couple times. The first time I way overpacked them and built elaborate boxes to protect the ballscrews from an A-bomb. When I received ballscrews from the manufacturer or rebuilder I was surprised to see that the boxes were minimal and the ballscrew itself was providing the strength with a corrugated box pretty much providing a place to put the shipping label. Once there were 2 wood blocks clamped crosswise around the 6' long ballscrew and a box wrapped around the blocks, with thin wood on the ends to keep the ballscrew from eating it's way out of the end of the box.

    If your casting are strong enough to be tossed into the mowed yard without breaking, perhaps you could pack them the same way? I'm picturing something about the shape and size of a cast straightedge for some reason. Without foam I'd wrap one of them in a layer or two of corrugated sheet and keep it in place with 6" wide stretch wrap. If the casting didn't want to stay inside that by itself I'd poke some holes through the corrugated and secure it with some tiewraps through holes in the casting. Then I'd buy or fold up some rectangular boxes to fit around the wrapped item and pack the space in between with cut and folded up pieces of scrap corrugated sheet or Great Stuff or peanuts or some other cheap material. If I were to fold the box up myself, I'd use double wall sheet. I used a sheetmetal brake to fold boxes before I had anything else. A real box machine just uses a wheel like a dull pizza cutter to score the corrugated sheet to make it easy to fold. In the process of rehabbing a used box making machine for my own use I discovered that there are lots of resources on the internet for small scale box design and construction, it even seems to be a hobby for some people.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    54
    Likes (Received)
    232

    Default

    Why not palletize and ship ltl?

  4. Likes digger doug liked this post
  5. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    erie,pa
    Posts
    6,914
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13510
    Likes (Received)
    3163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dgfoster View Post
    Yes, that binder you mentioned---diluted "Elmer's" glue might work well. There could be other options though. For instance polyurethane varnishes or similar products might be a good option. Mixing the binder and the peanuts or pellets together would likely present challenges and setup also would have to be worked out.

    Denis
    It does work well, enough to hold up an air-o-plane in flight.....it's proven, but hey try a little experiment yourself.

    Polyurethane resins are expensive, messy, and toxic.

    And depending on the thinner involved, immediately melt all your packing peanuts into a large glob.

    So you can recycle packing peanuts, using them in a heavier
    than normal loading, by simply adding some common, non toxic
    (and water clean up) PVA and water.

    Remember, I've run the Sealed air classic system with the
    (2) 55 gallon drums, it's a sticky, messy, toxic system.

  6. Likes dgfoster liked this post
  7. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    new plymouth id
    Posts
    188
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    50

    Default

    I didn't read the entire thread but fastenal sells a 2 part foam that is dense enough its a booger to get off thou. its used for insulating rv refrigerators and a lot of other stuff Im sure it would have to be sprayed into a bag and then packed immediately around the part and sealed. I think they have branches in washington

  8. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    820
    Likes (Received)
    1659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    If you call instapak you can get the number of your area sales/service rep, who will know who in your area have foam machines and could foam your shipments for you.

    Mine brought me one of these new 'simple' bag machines to test for a month. The machine rents by the month for about the same amount as my present service contract and all I would have had to buy was the chemicals and the plastic roll of bag material. We elected to stay with the machine we already own but this was a slick setup for occasional use. - Instapak Simple™ Foam in Bag Packaging System - YouTube

    I've shipped ballscrews a couple times. The first time I way overpacked them and built elaborate boxes to protect the ballscrews from an A-bomb. When I received ballscrews from the manufacturer or rebuilder I was surprised to see that the boxes were minimal and the ballscrew itself was providing the strength with a corrugated box pretty much providing a place to put the shipping label. Once there were 2 wood blocks clamped crosswise around the 6' long ballscrew and a box wrapped around the blocks, with thin wood on the ends to keep the ballscrew from eating it's way out of the end of the box.

    If your casting are strong enough to be tossed into the mowed yard without breaking, perhaps you could pack them the same way? I'm picturing something about the shape and size of a cast straightedge for some reason. Without foam I'd wrap one of them in a layer or two of corrugated sheet and keep it in place with 6" wide stretch wrap. If the casting didn't want to stay inside that by itself I'd poke some holes through the corrugated and secure it with some tiewraps through holes in the casting. Then I'd buy or fold up some rectangular boxes to fit around the wrapped item and pack the space in between with cut and folded up pieces of scrap corrugated sheet or Great Stuff or peanuts or some other cheap material. If I were to fold the box up myself, I'd use double wall sheet. I used a sheetmetal brake to fold boxes before I had anything else. A real box machine just uses a wheel like a dull pizza cutter to score the corrugated sheet to make it easy to fold. In the process of rehabbing a used box making machine for my own use I discovered that there are lots of resources on the internet for small scale box design and construction, it even seems to be a hobby for some people.
    I have come to the conclusion that wood end blocks and styrene sheet filler in folded up double-thick corrugated fits my needs best. Pretty much what you (and one or two others) outlined. I will be having to wait a week for any actual work on this due to vacation schedule and out of town house guests. But I will be posting pics and hopefully will do a "torture test" on my hoped for solution once worked out.

    BTW, good guess on the camelback straight edges. I am getting ready to take orders (seems to be enough interest for a second run after the first 6 sold out) on 36" approx 20# Foster Featherweight straight edges and will start work in a couple weeks on a similar design lightweight 48" Featherweight as well as a lightweight but rigid wood-handled cast iron prism that can be used full length at 48" or cut into segments of 1, 2, and 3 feet. Fun stuff---it really is.

    Denis

  9. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    822
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    89
    Likes (Received)
    304

  10. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    822
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    89
    Likes (Received)
    304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    "Normal UPS handling" I bought a transmission for an antique car. Smokin' deal. The shipper took it to a UPS store and they packed it with the bags Tony refers to. It arrived with the bell housing shattered. A bell housing was on Ebay for $49.99. I tried to file a claim. UPS said they had to pick it up to inspect it. They sent it back to the shipper, letting him out of the deal. They paid $450.00 to HIM. He parted it out and I have no gearbox.
    There is no packing method that will withstand "Normal UPS handling". And nothing will survive UPS stupidity.
    i quit marking "fragile" "glass" and have since not have a tempered glass break in ups shipping. lots broken when marked

  11. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    820
    Likes (Received)
    1659

    Default

    OK, I said I would get back to this thread on my actual solution to shipping the casting in question which turns out to be a very lightweight (compared to most) 36" Camelback Straight Edge of my design and machined by me for delivery to a PMer in NY.

    I investigated the various foam panels readily available at Lowes and HD and found that the only really rigid foam they carry is polyisocyanurate foam available only 2" thick though I have since learned other thicknesses are available from builders supply stores. In addition I have not YET gotten the needed supplies to setrup a hotwire foam cutter.

    So I reverted back to what many suggested and what I had previously done and built a plywood and SPF box which I then wrapped with cardboard and shipped USPS Priority to NY. The straight edge itself weighed 23# and in the box ready to ship weighed 36 pounds. With insurance for 600 dollars (a ten dollar extra) the total cost to NY from WA State was 102.10.

    I glued and screwed the box together using faily long "drywall" screws cutting an arc in one edge of the box to match the bow of the SE and then blocking the bow in with part of the cutout material. Other blocks were placed and the whole box was made to fit tightly aorund the perimater of the SE. I hot-glued the cardboard and then used strapping tape liberally to finish up the package. Now I will wait a few days until it arrives in NY to learn how it fares.

    I intend to look at the other foam thicknesses and see if they may lend themselves to improved speed and lightness of packing as I will be selling another run of 5 SE's in the not distant future.

    Denis
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails se-box-1-.jpg   se-box-5-.jpg   se-box-3-.jpg   se-box-4-.jpg   se-box-2-.jpg  

    Last edited by dgfoster; 08-12-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  12. #30
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    12,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1303
    Likes (Received)
    2386

    Default

    Nice job Good looking straight edge.

  13. Likes dgfoster liked this post
  14. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Vershire, Vermont
    Posts
    1,561
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    836
    Likes (Received)
    381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dgfoster View Post

    ...I investigated the various foam panels readily available at Lowes and HD and found that the only really rigid foam they carry is polyisocyanurate foam available only 2" thick though I have since learned other thicknesses are available from builders supply stores. In addition I have not YET gotten the needed supplies to setrup a hotwire foam cutter. ...

    Denis
    FWIW, a variac driving a length of nichrome wire works well cutting styrene/polystyrene foam. Smelly and messy and slow, compared to a saw or sharp knife, but good for contours. Don't think it works on polyisocyanurates, and I myself wouldn't try it, due to the toxic nature of the gasses released.

    Happy to send a length of aforementioned wire along, as I have quite a bit extra.

    neil

  15. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    820
    Likes (Received)
    1659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    FWIW, a variac driving a length of nichrome wire works well cutting styrene/polystyrene foam. Smelly and messy and slow, compared to a saw or sharp knife, but good for contours. Don't think it works on polyisocyanurates, and I myself wouldn't try it, due to the toxic nature of the gasses released.

    Happy to send a length of aforementioned wire along, as I have quite a bit extra.

    neil
    Thanks for the nichrome wire offer, Neil. I will PM you my address. It would be nice to have a piece of wire to try out before purchasing my own.

    Polyiso foam can be cut with a hot wire. Here is a video of a commercial setup cutting it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnVzHk-Pzc

    The isocyanurate part of the name does sound scary, but the MSDS states:
    Solid or dust may cause irritation or corneal injury due to mechanicalaction.
    Essentially nonirritating to the skin, mechanical injury only.
    Skin absorption unlikely due to physical properties

    Ingestion is unlikely due to physical state. Mechanical injury only.May cause choking if swallowed.
    Dust may cause irritation to upper respiratory tract. Vapor/fumesgenerated in thermal operation such as hot-wire cutting may causeirritation unless area is adequately ventilated.

    Repeated excessive exposures to dusts may cause respiratoryirritation and possible other respiratory effects.

    So far, I have not been able to find any reports of special toxicity associated with hot wiring it. You can be sure that I will be doing it with good ventilation---that is just common sense I think. I do have a variac sitting in the shop.

    One thing I want to try is to see if I can, using cauls and clamps, at least partially crush the foam onto the straight edge and the wrap the resulting rectangular "log" in cardboard as a way to make a quick secure shipping container.

    Denis
    Last edited by dgfoster; 08-13-2017 at 07:18 AM. Reason: typos. Sorry about the size formatting issue

  16. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Posts
    6,129
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    204
    Likes (Received)
    1246

    Default

    I have been shipping using pink rigid foam from home depot lately. I think it's EPS. 1" foam, 2 sheets of cardboard, item, 2 sheets cardboard, 1" of foam. Now I wrap the whole damn thing up with saran wrap, trying to compress it as I wrap. Then I put it in a snug fitting box. If I need to fill space in the box, i use more foam. Haven't had a problem yet.

    The cardboard holds the item in place, while the foam itself provides a crush zone.

  17. Likes dgfoster liked this post
  18. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Vershire, Vermont
    Posts
    1,561
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    836
    Likes (Received)
    381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dgfoster View Post


    Polyiso foam can be cut with a hot wire. Here is a video of a commercial setup cutting it.

    ...


    So far, I have not been able to find any reports of special toxicity associated with hot wiring it. You can be sure that I will be doing it with good ventilation---that is just common sense I think. I do have a variac sitting in the shop.


    Denis
    Thanks for the correction, Denis.

    Back in the '70s, my family's insulation business used to spray a lot of two part polyiso and burn the waste. Ugh. The prospect of hot wire cutting the stuff brought back the memory of the occasional whiff from the burn barrel.

    Do be careful.

    Some nichrome wire is on its way!

    Neil

  19. Likes dgfoster liked this post
  20. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    eugene,or
    Posts
    584
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    40
    Likes (Received)
    226

    Default

    Not to derail the discussion of shipping foams, but I like the look of your wooden box. Just finished moving my shop last month and I really appreciated those items that have reusable storage boxes.

    I'd consider including a nice storage box with your straight edges for additional cost. Could make shipping easier and make you a little extra money to cover the time spent packaging and shipping.

    Teryk

  21. Likes dgfoster liked this post
  22. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    820
    Likes (Received)
    1659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mTeryk View Post
    Not to derail the discussion of shipping foams, but I like the look of your wooden box. Just finished moving my shop last month and I really appreciated those items that have reusable storage boxes.

    I'd consider including a nice storage box with your straight edges for additional cost.
    Could make shipping easier and make you a little extra money to cover the time spent packaging and shipping.

    Teryk
    Not a bad idea. I wonder if folks would pay for the time though? They are already paying for the SE, machining, and shipping. Making the box takes a couple hours, but if several were made at a time, that number could come down.

    Hanging the SE vertically in the box could offer protection of the SE from bumps and moisture and minimize long-term bending stress (which I think may be worried about more than is warranted.)

    Denis


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •