Loud gears

kielbasavw · Jan 18, 2018

So I'm rebuilding a very old continental band saw. When I turn the lower wheel by hand, the gears are quite loud. They are helical cut which should be even quieter than straight cuts I'd think. I had a spare shaft/gear hoping it would help, it didn't make much of a difference. I tried filing the teeth to clean any burs or dings. I tried grease. I'm not sure what to do now. It's incredibly loud just by hand I couldn't imagine under constant power.
I'm not sure what to check/measure ect.. any help would be greatly appreciated. Here is a video and some photos. I believe the maim culprits are the 2 gears that mesh on the far left.

Here is the build thread
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/vintage-continental-band-saw-filer-344447/

onecut · Jan 18, 2018

Throw a handfull of powdered graphite in-Used to work at a place that machined graphite and you cant stop the graphite dust getting into the gearboxes everything ran smooth and it was the quietist shop I ever worked in-Dont know if the graphite grease is any good as I havnt tried it but I would guess it is

Richard King · Jan 18, 2018

The first link opens in You tube and says it is available so I looked at the 2nd link to your original thread. The gears in the one picture are shot as you can see on the teeth they are stepped. You should order some new gears or have some new ones made. A few of our members make gears and I know a company in CA hat makes them too..
Rubicon – Precision Gear Manufacturing You may be able to se standard size gears from Boston Gear. Lapping will make those worn gars worse.

Good luck

SteveBausch · Jan 18, 2018

Take the play out of the tapered roller bearings, see if that helps.

Dan from Oakland · Jan 18, 2018

The teeth are badly worn as noted above. If you can stand the noise, fill the gearbox with some heavy oil like 600W and just run it. If its a critical piece of equipment for your operation, bite the bullet and have new gears cut. If the saw is just for occasional use, it probably has many hours of use in the gears as-is.

Dan

jhruska · Jan 18, 2018

Remove the rust as it is abrasive, electrolysis is a friend.
A heavy like the old style wheel bearing grease will quiet the gears. That type of grease is very
dark brown in color and has a stringy-strand nature when pulled apart.
I rebuilt an early Continental-DoAll band saw and used a similar type grease. Clean and change the grease
after a few cycles till the teeth seat. As already noted, check for axial play and eliminate it.
John

TDegenhart · Jan 18, 2018

Yup, first stage gears are worn out, second state looks like its only partially engaged.

Tom

SteveBausch · Jan 18, 2018

I’d not worry about “correct”; various belt drives would be adequate.

Figure the reduction ratio, and duplicate as the belt drive you desire.

Vee belts are adequate, synchronous belts are overkill.

Aim for a double reduction with small pulleys at least 4 inches in diameter.

Can you fit 16” pulley in there?

Double reduction using 4” and 16” pulleys would get you 16:1

Investigate “Weldapulley”, a modular vee belt pulley system.

kielbasavw · Jan 18, 2018

TDegenhart said:
Yup, first stage gears are worn out, second state looks like its only partially engaged.

Tom

In this picture those gears aren't engaged. Just showing for visual of the gear setup

SteveBausch · Jan 18, 2018

Is this a wood or metal cutting bandsaw?

kielbasavw · Jan 18, 2018

SteveBausch said:
Is this a wood or metal cutting bandsaw?

Metal cutting variable speed saw

Peter S · Jan 18, 2018

Make sure there is backlash/clearance on all the gears and all the way around. The nosiest gears I recall hearing were those set tightly together.

Unlikely to be a problem I know, but seeing you have swapped out gears it would be worth checking.

kielbasavw · Jan 18, 2018

Peter S said:
Make sure there is backlash/clearance on all the gears and all the way around. The nosiest gears I recall hearing were those set tightly together.

Unlikely to be a problem I know, but seeing you have swapped out gears it would be worth checking.

The problem with that is theres no way to adjust the gears as far as I know... clearance and backlash is what it is basically. Unless I'm missing something.
There is some amount of backlash, and gears slide in fairly well not like it's binding on the other gear.

Ciszewski · Jan 18, 2018

Hello Kielbasavw
Perhaps 1 gear had been changed. My experience has been that a gear set that ran together as 1 unit right from new, & wore in together will sound fine. Replace 1 gear with a used gear from another set, & they don't seem to get along (run noisily).

TedinNorfolk · Jan 19, 2018

Find which pair is making the most noise-then replace the pinion with a nylon or Tufnol one

kielbasavw · Jan 20, 2018

So I found out If I flipped one of the gears, it made it quieter by about half, though I can't run the bearing retainer behind that gear after.
I half assed mocked up the motor and ran it. I'm not familiar at all with metal band saws, unsure if this is as slow as this should be. The slowest setting seems insanely slow to me like Un usable.. but maybe not? What do you guys think. Here's a video
Band saw running - YouTube

randyc · Jan 20, 2018

kielbasavw said:
So I found out If I flipped one of the gears, it made it quieter by about half....

That makes sense and I've been thinking of doing the same thing to my old Sheldon. The other side (non-loaded side) of the teeth should be much less worn since they've always been driven in the same direction. But I would think that reversing BOTH of the gears would be the way to go.

kielbasavw · Jan 20, 2018

The far left gear is machined into the shaft no Flippin that one

Ciszewski · Jan 20, 2018

randyc said:
That makes sense and I've been thinking of doing the same thing to my old Sheldon. The other side (non-loaded side) of the teeth should be much less worn since they've always been driven in the same direction. But I would think that reversing BOTH of the gears would be the way to go.

Hello Randyc
Just like flipping the outboard planetary final drive gears on a Versatile FWD farm tractor. It spends 99.99% of its life going forward. Flip the gears & get double the life out of them.

Peter S · Jan 21, 2018

kielbasavw said:
The slowest setting seems insanely slow to me like Un usable.. but maybe not? What do you guys think. Here's a video

kielbasavw,

I can't see the figures on your speed indicator, but the indicator and speed change handwheel look the same as my V-16 DoALL.

On the V-16, the slowest speeds are 50-150 feet per minute and are the "Filing Range". Not sure if you have seen them but DoALL used to supply file bands for these machines. The band is made up of 3 inch segments of file on a spring steel backing. Apart from being good working speeds, I suspect these bands couldn't handle higher speeds as they are fairly clunky things (Seen them, but never used them).

Also, speeds as low as 50 FPM were recommended for some band sawing work - e.g. sawing stainless steel and also some tool steels, especially thick section, say 2-3 inches thick.

BTW, all the DoALL's I have seen have a "Job Selector" on their top door, it has all the material/speed/TPI etc. information. I guess your machine pre-dates the Job Selector.

Another thought - you could check the slowest speed (FPM) and see if it approximately matches the speed indicator (e.g. measure the saw length, mark the band and count the markings over a minute). Just in case your motor speed is not the same as the original fitting. But it looks about right to me.

Good to hear you have had some success in reducing gear noise.

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