Machine coolant

Someone I work with has got me concerned/paranoid about potential health risks involving machine coolant. Machine coolant after a period of time becomes tainted with metal shavings, oil separating from water, tramp oil and bacteria. The thing that has me concerned is the bacteria, mainly because the shop I work at as far as I know never changes the coolant and only adds new coolant to what’s already in the machine when the level starts to get low or the consistency of the coolant becomes too thick. I know there’s biocides and chemicals you can add to coolant that is harmless to machines and metal but the owner of the business doesn’t care enough about the people who work for him to add it to the coolant and change the coolant after an extended period of time. I don’t know if it’s worth the effort or hassle to talk to him about it and try to get him to do something about it since he probably already knows about this potential threat considering he’s owned the shop nearly 30 years. I know if he wouldn’t consider my concerns or hear me out there’s OSHA but I really wouldn’t want to go that route and end up causing problems for the shop, because I know for a fact it would with the appearance of some of the coolant I see in the machines. My first few months working in the shop I ended up getting pneumonia and I was only 20 at the time and I would say I was pretty healthy When I got sick and wasn’t in a state where I could have gotten pneumonia through physical contact, but aerosolize the bacteria and then I’m completely at risk because then it ends up in my lungs which would be a perfect incubator for the bacteria to survive and multiply.

Oldscooloperator said:

Someone I work with has got me concerned/paranoid about potential health risks involving machine coolant. Machine coolant after a period of time becomes tainted with metal shavings, oil separating from water, tramp oil and bacteria. The thing that has me concerned is the bacteria, mainly because the shop I work at as far as I know never changes the coolant and only adds new coolant to what’s already in the machine when the level starts to get low or the consistency of the coolant becomes too thick. I know there’s biocides and chemicals you can add to coolant that is harmless to machines and metal but the owner of the business doesn’t care enough about the people who work for him to add it to the coolant and change the coolant after an extended period of time. I don’t know if it’s worth the effort or hassle to talk to him about it and try to get him to do something about it since he probably already knows about this potential threat considering he’s owned the shop nearly 30 years. I know if he wouldn’t consider my concerns or hear me out there’s OSHA but I really wouldn’t want to go that route and end up causing problems for the shop, because I know for a fact it would with the appearance of some of the coolant I see in the machines. My first few months working in the shop I ended up getting pneumonia and I was only 20 at the time and I would say I was pretty healthy When I got sick and wasn’t in a state where I could have gotten pneumonia through physical contact, but aerosolize the bacteria and then I’m completely at risk because then it ends up in my lungs which would be a perfect incubator for the bacteria to survive and multiply.

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Not sure anything has all that good a chance at getting INTO your lungs.

If you don't stop to catch a breath any more often than you pause in your posting, it would have a hard time of it.

You are in America. You are young. Very.

Just go and find a better job.

If you prefer to sit in-place and bitch about working conditions?

Take a number, please. You ain't yet seen s**t.

We are still working on the 50-65 year-old age group. They have done.

Might be a while...

I don't want to under state the need for proper coolant maintenance but I think you need to understand the specific health hazards and understand ways to minimize exposure to the hazards.

Most of the various coolant bacteria are anaerobic meaning that they do not use oxygen for respiration. The best way to control these is with proper aeration and controlling the presence of tramp oil which is often food for the bacteria.

Most large manufacturing plants with large central coolant systems have coolant change intervals at 2 to 5yrs. The coolant is properly maintained to achieve such intervals and that includes centrifuging out the tramp oil occasionally depending on tramp oil amount present. I bring up the coolant change interval of large systems so that you can know that it is possible to maintain coolant quality and purity for extended periods of time and without health hazards.

Coolant concentrate should be only added to maintain the proper solution concentration. Controlling the water hardness is also important.

There are two main paths that for coolant loss, dragout and evaporation. The dragout loss requires makeup of concentrate and water. The evaporative losses only require makeup water. If you are located at a high elevation, in a very dry climate or both, you might need to monitor dissolved solids and make occasional coolant dumps (like a boiler blow down) to keep the dissolved solids in line.

The addition of bactericides should not be necessary if the coolant is being maintained properly as good coolant quality and purity is not a good environment for bacteria growth.

Proper aeration is paramount in importance to control bacteria growth. A good coolant management plan will have the coolant system do auto startups in weekends or down periods to specifically aerate the coolant every couple of hours. On small sump tanks, the addition of a small bubbler is often adequate.

As far as the health risks, dermatitis, a skin inflammation, is the usual malady of machinist from exposure to the coolant. This is not always caused by contaminated coolant and many times can be an intolerance to certain types or brands of coolants by specific individuals.


As far as the respiratory issues, coolant aerosols will cause inflammation of the mucus membranes of the respiratory system. The solution to this is to control how much mist is in the air and how much mist you breathe in. Mist collectors are a good method. Most modern machine tools have the coolant and machining operation contained in the process cabinet which does much to contain the aerosols.

As far as your pneumonia, you didn't say which one you got. There is viral and bacteria caused pneumonia. It is highly unlikely that you will get viral pneumonia from being exposed to contaminated coolant outside of the the presence of mucous membrane irritation making you more susceptible to developing pneumonia.

Most of the bacteria that are found in coolant are not the types that cause bacterial pneumonia. Not saying it can't happen but the usual disease mechanism is that the inflamed mucous membranes allows the bacteria present in others infected around us a threshold into the lungs.

Coolant is expensive to dump and replace. That is why most shop owners are reluctant to change coolant even when it gets nasty. The best way to get shop owners that tolerate nasty coolant is to appeal to money saving methods that will actually add to the bottom line and not add to the shop costs.

Maintaining proper coolant purity and quality will often extend tool life substantially and improve surface finish. If a proper coolant filtration system is used all of these goals can be achieved without having a significant operational cost and frequently will yield substantial labor savings in chip handling and coolant tank cleaning.

You shoulddn't have to tolerate nasty coolant but at the same time complaining about it won't get you the results you want. The best path is by offering solutions to the problem that give results for very little money and usually will result in cost savings.

You should also not be paranoid about certain safety issues. Paranoia indicates fear due to lack of knowledge. Paranoia will also get you hurt or killed. You need to know the real hazards and understand them. If they are a real hazard, they need to be remediated through a variety of ways. Follow the OSHA safety rules. Remediation through PPE is often the first line of defense if the existing hazard can not be remediated.

What Ziggy said on coolants. Very good general summary.

And this:

You should also not be paranoid about certain safety issues. Paranoia indicates fear due to lack of knowledge. Paranoia will also get you hurt or killed. You need to know the real hazards and understand them. If they are a real hazard, they need to be remediated through a variety of ways.

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"Paranoid?" Or just looking for a controversial start to a distracting thread on PM?

More time learning YOUR job well.
More time learning your Company well.
More time building effective bothway communications.
More time learning your trade and its industry well.

All whilst under THEIR roof ... rather than outside of it.

Pays better. Lasts longer. Earns you more and better choices. When not? Move-on.

Anywhere you go. Any part of your working years.

"There are two main paths that for coolant loss, dragout and evaporation. The dragout loss requires makeup of concentrate and water. The evaporative losses only require makeup water."


BULLSHIT,,,the coolant oil does evaporate and becomes atomized in the air,,,ask a painter in the same same proximity of a CNC

jrmach said:

"There are two main paths that for coolant loss, dragout and evaporation. The dragout loss requires makeup of concentrate and water. The evaporative losses only require makeup water."


BULLSHIT,,,the coolant oil does evaporate and becomes atomized in the air,,,ask a painter in the same same proximity of a CNC

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Cough, cough.. yah.. run any of this stuff at moving parts and hot cutting tool tips hard at work ripping chip, you could probably "atomize" Osmium, too.

Here, let me help you with a linky:
www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gener...inform-what-your-topic-actually-about-307648/

thermite said:

Not sure anything has all that good a chance at getting INTO your lungs.

If you don't stop to catch a breath any more often than you pause in your posting, it would have a hard time of it.

You are in America. You are young. Very.

Just go and find a better job.

If you prefer to sit in-place and bitch about working conditions?

Take a number, please. You ain't yet seen s**t.

We are still working on the 50-65 year-old age group. They have done.

Might be a while...

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I’m not bitching it’s just a legit concern I have after looking up information. Mainly because the coolant is so improperly maintained. I just don’t want to end up with a serious ailment while working for a piss on company. You’re right though I do need to find a better environment to work, in I just need to ride out working at this place for a little while longer to gain more experience before I can depart. The owner might be using me and others for inexperienced cheap labor but I’m using his business and the job he’s allowing me to have to gain experience to go elsewhere with it. But thats how entry-level works, does it not?

Posts like ziggy’s really is what I was looking for I wasn’t trying to start any arguments or shit I just was trying to see what other people thought, what other peoples experiences are with coolant, if I seriously need to be concerned and information from what other people know. What I’m writing might be misinterpreted or misconstrued because you can’t hear how I’m thinking it and there’s no “tone” to be perceived for what I’m writing.

Oldscooloperator said:

The owner might be using me and others for inexperienced cheap labor but I’m using his business and the job he’s allowing me to have to gain experience to go elsewhere with it. But thats how entry-level works, does it not?

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"entry level?" Never changed even when I had become numero uno.

It was customers doing it "directly" then - rather than via a Unit Prez, CFO, or the Chairman as middleman.

You surely didn't think your lot were inventing an environment just for the sake of personalized local head-games did you?

Shared competitive pressures of ANY business, onpassed, is all.

You've heard that "the shit always flows down hill"?

No.. in a business it does not, actually.

Bothway traffic if ever was.

A marginal, unhappy, or otherwise problematic labour force at shop floor causes an Executive as much of an ulcer, sleep or hair loss as any aggravation felt below.

Whether he gives a damn or not about the humans, it is a crucial portion of his resource set, and has to be made better and made the best of while trying.

He, after all, has more people wanting HIS job, and a higher risk they include BETTER men, than is the case at YOUR level.

Far, far, easier to replace a Division Manager or a unit CEO than a good toolmaker or Diamond setter.

The money attracts a high grade of challengers. They don't have to care about loyalty driven by comfort or "retirement plans", they've built both on their own. They are far better at THEIR job than you are at your job - or they'd never have made it into consideration.

And they are seriously competitive folks. Sharks are but an entree.

Twenty five that year, returned veteran going on a hundred, numbah two slot in the executive carpark only because the Executive VP - my next-higher - slept later than I did and WANTED me to beat him in to work. A lovely - and very bold - young lady who wasn't even on my staff once delivered me a paper-bag lunch prominently MARKED as my lunch.

Bag was full of nails. Big ones. No bread. No cheese. No lettuce. No tomato. Not even mayo!

Kept a deadpan face on. Thanked her kindly for a healthier repast than my usual. Predicted my digestive system would convert them to Wilkinson Sword's best stainless steel razor blades before day's end. Can't stand the heat nor deal with surprises? Stay out of the kitchen and get your Iron some easier way.



I lightened-up. Slightly. For a whole two days maybe?

I did mellow out a bit more after she moved-in. At my home. Not the office.

Wimmin' and the ways they run this world never cease to amaze!

I get it that one “bad link in the chain” can affect the rest but that doesn’t mean I have to like the way it works, it also doesn’t mean I just give up neither. I might talk shit about what happened to some coworkers to let out some anger to some that way it’s not bottled up. Which is probably better for my work performance and the business overall, because if I just let it eat away at me and press it down, my work performance is screwed my chance at having a job is damaged and the most important thing, it affects the customer who has no relation to what goes on in the shop. They might impact the amount of work you need to do, or your superiors coming down on workers to try and get you to meet their deadlines’, but at the end of the day they’re just trying to survive in this world and demand results in the necessity to supply it. So there’s more than just a shop relationship to consider when something doesn’t go the way you hoped or expected.

Oldscooloperator said:

I might talk shit about what happened to some coworkers to let out some anger to some that way it’s not bottled up. Which is probably better for my work performance and the business overall,

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No. It is not "better". You are "rationalizing" the wrong behaviour, and for the wrong reasons.

"Talking shit", at work, at home, or HERE.. just recycles the shit ...and displays it...all over he who talks it, not he who shat it!

Shit stains of that sort endure, even follow you around, one job to the next, any relatonship to another, even hunt you down and whack you when you, but not the world, think them long forgotten.

Find a better way.

Before you rule yourself clear out of any chance to ever improve your situation in life.

Bad actors are marked as hazards to navigation - much as dangerous rocks in a broad river or potholes in a major highway.

Men of good will carry valuable commerce up and down that river or highway of life by AVOIDING those hazards to navigation. Those rocks or holes do not get to participate in the progress of man.

They just sit there, helplessly being slowly eroded by the abrasives or shock loads that river or highway also carries.

Which one shall you be?

Healthy, productive, and respected voyager?

Or the hazard - gradually fading from view astern ...or in his rear-view mirror?

Your choice. You may have to work at it.

Every day. All day. Life long. And everywhere you venture.

Oldscooloperator said:

Someone I work with has got me concerned/paranoid about potential health risks involving machine coolant. Machine coolant after a period of time becomes tainted with metal shavings, oil separating from water, tramp oil and bacteria. The thing that has me concerned is the bacteria, mainly because the shop I work at as far as I know never changes the coolant and only adds new coolant to what’s already in the machine when the level starts to get low or the consistency of the coolant becomes too thick. I know there’s biocides and chemicals you can add to coolant that is harmless to machines and metal but the owner of the business doesn’t care enough about the people who work for him to add it to the coolant and change the coolant after an extended period of time. I don’t know if it’s worth the effort or hassle to talk to him about it and try to get him to do something about it since he probably already knows about this potential threat considering he’s owned the shop nearly 30 years. I know if he wouldn’t consider my concerns or hear me out there’s OSHA but I really wouldn’t want to go that route and end up causing problems for the shop, because I know for a fact it would with the appearance of some of the coolant I see in the machines. My first few months working in the shop I ended up getting pneumonia and I was only 20 at the time and I would say I was pretty healthy When I got sick and wasn’t in a state where I could have gotten pneumonia through physical contact, but aerosolize the bacteria and then I’m completely at risk because then it ends up in my lungs which would be a perfect incubator for the bacteria to survive and multiply.

Click to expand...

.
,
of course coolant is hazardous to breath. some are more sensitive to it. might want to get a different job if it bothers you

Pneumocystitis has been documented in machine operators with long term exposure to atomized coolant. Fortunately, evidence shows that it does self correct after the operator is removed from exposure. Long term damage has not been proven, but cysts on the lung cant be good. The biota in poorly maintained coolant reads like a whos who list of nasty pathogens. It can include yeasts, mold, fungus and bacteria the likes of Klebsiella. In extremely poorly maintained coolant tanks, a biomass is formed, protecting the offending biota from any biocides that are introduced into the system. At that point, the coolant is a complete loss, and disposal and PROPER cleaning are needed. Just cleaning chips from the bottom of the tank will extend the life, as it provides better circulation and reduces the growth of biomass. The owner is in bad need of an education in coolant maintenance. Properly maintained coolant will save money through increased tool life, better finishes and the ability to hold tighter tolerances, among other things.

Breathing it doesn’t physically bother me, it’s just the potential for what it can do, if it becomes tainted that does.

www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/anyone-here-get-sick-coolant-ingestion-187817

This thread was an interesting read on this subject.

thermite said:

Not sure anything has all that good a chance at getting INTO your lungs.

If you don't stop to catch a breath any more often than you pause in your posting, it would have a hard time of it.

You are in America. You are young. Very.

Just go and find a better job.

If you prefer to sit in-place and bitch about working conditions?

Take a number, please. You ain't yet seen s**t.

We are still working on the 50-65 year-old age group. They have done.

Might be a while...

Click to expand...

Telling someone, of any age to not worry about safety concerns because others have 'had it worse' is counterproductive at best and dangerous at worst. An attitude like that is not appropriate for a site dedicated to spending time around large dangerous machinery.

My grandfather sprayed many cars back in the day without a respirator, went out and smoked for a 'breather' then died of cancer after 20 years of surgeries and chemo. He 'went there and saw that' but was not so insecure that he needed to prove it to others, instead he would tell them to read about the dangers and to be as careful as they could.

There's no doubt that breathing any fluid contaminated with bacteria can and will have adverse affects on your health. I have experienced this personally after cleaning a vibratory tumbler sump that had gone nasty... Massive sinus infection ensued. I should have worn a respirator but didn't think about it enough I guess.

Over a year and multiple courses of antibiotics later, I'm still not 100% again with recurring sinus infections and so on. Never had any issues before the initial encounter, and haven't let coolant go nasty since.


Long story short: money comes and goes, you only get your health once. Be careful.


To improve the situation: offer to clean the sumps yourself, and offer suggestions from this thread to keep them nice... Your boss is clearly fine with them how they are, so if you want the work done make sure to offer yourself. When cleaning wear a P100 respirator (full face would be best) and gloves! Single use coveralls would probably be a good bet as well.

aarongough said:

Telling someone, of any age to not worry about safety concerns because others have 'had it worse' is counterproductive at best and dangerous at worst. An attitude like that is not appropriate for a site dedicated to spending time around large dangerous machinery.

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HE got it in two, if not one.

YOU have missed it, still-yet.

He is not in a position to have a positive effect. He needs to move to where he can do.

Hard to earn that choice if globally-published, deeply Google-indexed and eminently searchable whining and brags of "talking shit" to his co-workers has been chosen as the path, rather than changing the things he CAN change.

His own choice of how and where he earns a crust, head of the list.

Presuming his present employer HAS a coolant problem? And we do not, in fact KNOW that, as whatever else the OP is, he is not the one trained to, nor engaged in, actively monitoring the coolant's condition and treatment.

Someone who IS in a position to facilitate corrective action has to be the active player.
That is not he.

You have 100% confidence in his observations? YOU file an OSHA bitch.

Most of us do not have enough reliable information, and have said so already.

thermite said:

HE got it in two, if not one.

YOU have missed it, still-yet.

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Oh I got it. But telling someone they should not worry about potential safety concerns in their current role, and that their only option is to jump ship is nonsensical. "Being the change" is hard, but I have pushed my way up that hill multiple times, and learnt a lot doing it.

aarongough said:

Oh I got it. But telling someone they should not worry about potential safety concerns in their current role, and that their only option is to jump ship is nonsensical. "Being the change" is hard, but I have pushed my way up that hill multiple times, and learnt a lot doing it.

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Most of us have. He isn't yet even aware where to find the starting point. Nor even that one exists.

And you STILL don't "get it".

Condoning dangerous health and safety practice is ALWAYS a bad idea. Post-OSHA, Pre-OSHA, or even Pre-Bronze age.

Save for a single case of gross insubordination, the only on-the-spot terminations (or arrests, military service..) I've had to make in long years in the role were for severe Safety Violations.

Zero tolerance. No remedial chat. No second chance. No apologies. No challenge possible, Union shop, armed forces, or civilian. Those terminations were not exactly the "casual" acts of a novice lacking in understanding of a shared environment, either.

The lives and safety of the OTHERS who had done no wrong were simply too precious to put at the risk of dangerous fools.

I didn't HIRE that sort.

Various times and places, I have certainly "inherited" my fair share!
One sorts that, and "Real soon, NOW!".

Or has no right to the respect and cooperation of the good 'uns so important to the team's survival and success.