Machine Rigging Ideas

zipfactor · Feb 13, 2018

I'm getting ready to move a new to me CNC lathe in a few weeks, about 6,000 lbs. I've used bars or pipe as rollers underneath machines in the past, though its a PITA. If I had nice level and smooth concrete, especially right outside the shop, it would probably work fine.

I have a forklift but its capacity is only 3,000 lbs. Also, the soil conditions under the concrete are suspect, so I'd be leary to drive a loaded forklift with the lathe on it for fear of busting the concrete.

I've been looking at machine skates, and while they are nice, their wheels do not seem suited for any sort of rough / uneven concrete. I was thinking of bolting casters to the machine and rolling directly on the concrete. I'd try to find something compliant (pneumatic tire, or soft durometer PU) to take up for the rough uneven surfaces.

I'll be unloading the machine from a hydraulic drop deck trailer, the idea being no need for a forklift.

Any thoughts on how to make this job a little easier than the standard pipe roller method?

guest · Feb 13, 2018

Check with your local Sunbelt or equivalent- rent a toe jack and some proper skates/steerable dolly for the day.

thermite · Feb 13, 2018

zipfactor said:
I'm getting ready to move a new to me CNC lathe in a few weeks, about 6,000 lbs. I've used bars or pipe as rollers underneath machines in the past, though its a PITA. If I had nice level and smooth concrete, especially right outside the shop, it would probably work fine.

I have a forklift but its capacity is only 3,000 lbs. Also, the soil conditions under the concrete are suspect, so I'd be leary to drive a loaded forklift with the lathe on it for fear of busting the concrete.

I've been looking at machine skates, and while they are nice, their wheels do not seem suited for any sort of rough / uneven concrete. I was thinking of bolting casters to the machine and rolling directly on the concrete. I'd try to find something compliant (pneumatic tire, or soft durometer PU) to take up for the rough uneven surfaces.

I'll be unloading the machine from a hydraulic drop deck trailer, the idea being no need for a forklift.

Any thoughts on how to make this job a little easier than the standard pipe roller method?

Even the heaviest casters I have would not be a good fit. For starters, they have double wheels and are about a foot wide. You'd need a hellacious-strong structure just to attach them to. Side loads are the killer, due to the height needed to make them able to swivel, or for non-swiveling ones to match the height of those that must.

All skates need is a "roadway" of some sort. Steel channel or I-beam AS channel, even timber. SO LONG AS.. adequately supported. My second 10EE was delivered that way - neat as you please, trailer tail at the rollup door, channels well inside the space, jackstands stabilizing the trailer's arse, grillage supporting the steel .

Also only half your planned load, though!!!

Personally, I'd day-rent - not for the first time - an 8,000 to 12,000 lb "yard", not warehouse, type forklift with its wider stance and larger tires.

zipfactor · Feb 13, 2018

I agree, I think a toe jack is in order. I'm tired of using a pry bar.

zipfactor · Feb 13, 2018

thermite said:
All skates need is a "roadway" of some sort. Steel channel or I-beam AS channel, even timber. SO LONG AS.. adequately supported. My second 10EE was delivered that way - neat as you please, trailer tail at the rollup door, channels well inside the space, jackstands stabilizing the trailer's arse, grillage supporting the steel .

That's a great thought with the steel channel. I have a bunch laying around for a project that could be temporarily used for this.

Personally, I'd day-rent - not for the first time - an 8,000 to 12,000 lb "yard", not warehouse, type forklift with its wider stance and larger tires.

The combined weight of the machine and forklift would more than likely break the concrete. Otherwise, I'd definitely go that route.

thermite · Feb 13, 2018

zipfactor said:
I agree, I think a toe jack is in order. I'm tired of using a pry bar.

A pair of toe-jacks, even. Too OLD to use pry bar, here.. or want to do. Hard to even drag the 5,000 lb Vestil pry-dolleys to the task, let alone climb onto them..

But jacks don't ROLL a load. Only make prep and recover safer and easier.

thermite · Feb 13, 2018

zipfactor said:
That's a great thought with the steel channel. I have a bunch laying around for a project that could be temporarily used for this.

The combined weight of the machine and forklift would more than likely break the concrete. Otherwise, I'd definitely go that route.

Even the heaviest of beam or channel MUST have good support, more than one point, too, usually. It won't carry jack s**t as a load, otherwise - just fail in bending.

Yard forklift has tires that expect crap surfaces, even poorly graveled dirt, spread their loads, so possibly no damage.

I did hang one briefly over a newly placed asphalt patch, warm summer day, where a waterline had been cut across, but only briefly. Two by ten cutoff about 18" long, I was good again.

If you have the maneuvering space a "rough terrain" FL can even stay atop ignorant muddy dirt.

They rent those as well - mud-boot construction sites common as they are.

Also steel plate a FL can chain and place in the lift zone ahead of itself, then move or recover - road repair as common as that is.

Doing it "the way the big boys do it" puts a Hell of a dent in one's beer budget.

OTOH, it is but once in many years, and is pretty good at avoiding dents - or far worse - in scarce and far costlier-yet machine-tools.

Or your own good self.

kb0thn · Feb 13, 2018

zipfactor said:
The combined weight of the machine and forklift would more than likely break the concrete. Otherwise, I'd definitely go that route.

It might not.

The concrete at my shop is terrible. We had the shop bathroom actually break off the building because the backfill had subsided. The building is built on top of a former construction dump, best I can tell. The sub-surface prep appears to have been non-existant. There is no rebar in the concrete. Just four inches of fiberglass reinforced concrete.

Brought in 10k lbs of Mazak QT lathe on 25k lbs of forklift. No issues. There might be more cracks in the concrete, but nothing noticeable. I checked the level on the mill next to the lathe and it was unaffected.

The final last few feet of lathe positioning was done with the lathe on skates. We couldn't push it by hand at all. But it pushed okay with our 3k rated (6k lbs weight, I would guess) electric forklift. You might be able to use your little forklift to prod the lathe into place on skates. Just make sure you don't knock it off the skates.

Peter from Holland · Feb 13, 2018

2 pallet jacks One in front one at the rear
Put rubber wood or cardboard between machine and palletjack
Get someone to help Make sure who is the boss
And slowly No rush
If the concrete is to rough lay down some sheetmetal or hardboard with some sand beneeth to level it out

Peter

BobRenz · Feb 13, 2018

Using machinery skates with a channel support will work well, but be very careful if your route isn't level. I had a Bridgeport sitting on skates on a garage floor that started rolling toward the door, just from the slight slope in my garage floor.

JRIowa · Feb 13, 2018

First thing to do is look in the manual. Most of the time, the builder has lifting instructions. There are many things you can destroy on a CNC by lifting it wrong.
JR

thermite · Feb 13, 2018

Peter from Holland said:
If the concrete is to rough lay down some sheetmetal or hardboard with some sand beneeth to level it out

Peter

Put down a tarp first, you can mix the sand with Gypsum - as for drywall joints. It sets way faster than Portland cement - to make it more stable, yet.

Easily busted up afterwards. The tarp has kept whatever is under it clean and not bonded to it, manages the debris.

zipfactor · Feb 13, 2018

JRIowa said:
First thing to do is look in the manual. Most of the time, the builder has lifting instructions. There are many things you can destroy on a CNC by lifting it wrong.
JR

I looked over the manual, just the usual CYA instructions. I'd think jacking and putting machine skates underneath at the floor support points would be fine?

zipfactor · Feb 13, 2018

BobRenz said:
Using machinery skates with a channel support will work well, but be very careful if your route isn't level. I had a Bridgeport sitting on skates on a garage floor that started rolling toward the door, just from the slight slope in my garage floor.

I'll have to do that, the route has quite a bit of slope leading into the shop.

Using the forklift as an anchor point, I could attach a come along and work it that way. Or a block and tackle and have a helper manage that as a safety backup.

thermite · Feb 13, 2018

zipfactor said:
I looked over the manual, just the usual CYA instructions. I'd think jacking and putting machine skates underneath at the floor support points would be fine?

Really no viable way for folk "at a distance" to help answer that. You haven't even told us WHICH CNC lathe, or of what "era".

Ex: Cazeneuve built the HBX-360 on a Cast-Iron base, originally (my one). Latter years, and the CNC-ised Optika? That was replaced with sheet metal.

As strong, as rigid in Day Job use? Possibly more so.

Attached to and moved about the same way? Much less likely.

Then, too, you are starting already ON a trailer. Lathe is on skids? Or not? Trailer deck is what? Steel diamond-plate? Tired and wonkey wood planking? How level and stable the trailer? How much space to even get TO the OEM support pad areas?

Overhead slings can be much simpler.

zipfactor · Feb 13, 2018

thermite said:
Really no viable way for folk "at a distance" to help answer that. You haven't even told us WHICH CNC lathe, or of what "era".

Clausing Colchester Storm 100. The manual provided to us, as I didn't find anything online, is vague at best regarding moving.

thermite · Feb 13, 2018

zipfactor said:
Clausing Colchester Storm 100. The manual provided to us, as I didn't find anything online, is vague at best regarding moving.

That's unfortunate. Lots of older iron makers were really specific, photos and all.

But I'm sure you'll sort it. "Ideas", we did/do have. Pick and choose carefully!

Demon69 · Feb 13, 2018

I was gonna say two pallet jacks, along with:-
2 toe jacks, if ya lazy.
2 ratchet straps
2 lengths 4x4 that are a couple foot wider than the machine.
Some cribbing shims, sheet mdf cut into squares do well enough.
Picking bar if needed.

Pic/crib the thing high enough to get the jacks under it.
One toe jack either end spotting shims either side, ie three points when jacking, the jack being the single point, opposite shims being the two points, spotting either side of the jack shims to catch a fall.
When high enough get the 4x4 timbers under it and bolt or strap them to the machine, they can act as outriggers and clearance for the pallet jacks and a soft landing.
Use the pallet jacks to lift just clear of the floor and move in any direction needed, using more hands / come along over the sticky bits.

I love pallet jacks and 4x4s, so quick easy and forgiving.

Or listen to someone who knows what theyre doing

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