Got a 2 day suspension. I left my electrical panel doors open with LO/TO in place.

I walked into work this morning, and there by the time clock was my boss. "I need to talk to you". Can I clock in? "No".

So we walk to a room and sit down. He explains that he wasn't the only one that saw the incident last Friday. I am an industrial maintenance technician. I've been with this plant for 13 years with the same job. I do good. Friday, we were upgrading one of the machines and I had the panel Locked and Tagged. It was time for a break and as we were getting ready, I looked at the doors but said to myself, "Nope, it's good, I have it locked". When we came back, my boss was standing there and explained I had to have the doors closed regardless of the LO/TO. Yes, I still have power coming into the disconnect and yes, that was still a hazard. I didn't argue, I just accepted and moved on. So today I got suspended because there was another "witness" and it must have been brought to other managements attention. The boss said due to the "zero tolerance", I nearly was terminated, but instead am on final warning. What a lousy feeling.

yikes....that does suck...accidents happen. Even major accidents. At least noone got hurt, and you are able to learn from this. Going forward, I bet you wont do that again. I wouldnt sweat it too much...they didnt fire you when they could have, which means they must appreciate you.

Wow Nothing worse than the feeling of possibly loosing a job. Look on the bright side you still have a job a lot of people don't. Like alloutmx said don't sweat it.

My take

You are no longer wanted there, don't prolong the agony, it's time to pack your bags and move on.

Don't mess about, first thing, first shift back, go and hand in your notice, collect your tools and personal belongings and leave the plant immediately.


YMMV

allloutmx said:

yikes....that does suck...accidents happen. Even major accidents. At least noone got hurt, and you are able to learn from this. Going forward, I bet you wont do that again. I wouldnt sweat it to much...they didnt fire you when they could have, which means they must appreciate you.

Click to expand...

Yikes indeed. When he sat me down with the paper I was thinking I was terminated. I couldn't read it, I ended up asking "What does this mean".

For 10 years we were another company. Things were a lot different. Production was very high and the goal was numbers. We hardly used locks on our equipment then. I was one of the leaders in bringing and helping others understand the new changes with NFPA 70e to the plant. But things still were not as strict. The market started to change and production started to slow. Our old company put our division up for sale and we were purchased. New policies, goals, management, and a HUGE focus on safety. I have been in electrical panels thousands of times. Was there a big risk factor with leaving the doors open and the power off? No, not really with the style of disconnect. But it's there policy. I know going forward I will have to be the model employee.

Limy Sami said:

My take

You are no longer wanted there, don't prolong the agony, it's time to pack your bags and move on.

Don't mess about, first thing, first shift back, go and hand in your notice, collect your tools and personal belongings and leave the plant immediately.


YMMV

Click to expand...

That might be easy to do if I didn't have a family to provide for, the wage I make, and the lack of jobs like this in the area. If I went anywhere else right now, I would probably start $10 less an hour and be on shift. That would be a big change. I will keep my eyes on the job board though.

Limy Sami said:

My take

You are no longer wanted there, don't prolong the agony, it's time to pack your bags and move on.

Don't mess about, first thing, first shift back, go and hand in your notice, collect your tools and personal belongings and leave the plant immediately.


YMMV

Click to expand...

I disagree, he is just following rules. Someone could have been injured or killed.
We have the same kind of rules here, and we are all responsible.

Luke said:

Yikes indeed. When he sat me down with the paper I was thinking I was terminated. I couldn't read it, I ended up asking "What does this mean".

For 10 years we were another company. Things were a lot different. Production was very high and the goal was numbers. We hardly used locks on our equipment then. I was one of the leaders in bringing and helping others understand the new changes with NFPA 70e to the plant. But things still were not as strict. The market started to change and production started to slow. Our old company put our division up for sale and we were purchased. New policies, goals, management, and a HUGE focus on safety. I have been in electrical panels thousands of times. Was there a big risk factor with leaving the doors open and the power off? No, not really with the style of disconnect. But it's there policy. I know going forward I will have to be the model employee.

Click to expand...

Thats just it...as long as its in the rule book as part of the company policy, thats how we all have to play ball. I dont know what there is to do in Iowa, but enjoy your day and a half off...Sounds like your okay.
its good that you feel bad. id hire you

allloutmx said:

Thats just it...as long as its in the rule book as part of the company policy, thats how we all have to play ball. I dont know what there is to do in Iowa, but enjoy your day and a half off...Sounds like your okay

Click to expand...

For my day off, I'm finishing my garage door opener project at home to keep the wife happy, and then I will go down to the shop and make some sawdust and start cleaning my Pacemaker. No sense sitting in the corner.

Seems like someone either doesn't like you or was having a bad day. Mind you I haven't worked for anyone but me in this century, but I can remember seeing open electrical panels on numerous occasions in large factories with no one around. Anyone with an I.Q. over 70 knows not to stick their hand in an electrical cabinet unless they are qualified and most people are scared of electricity anyway. You did wrong but I don't see any reason for anything other than an undocumented verbal warning. A two day suspension for a first offense seems pretty harsh. I would do some research on other employment as a preemptive measure.

So much of policy now is driven by safety and compliance with those policies, and in some industries with good reason. An injury to someone last a lifetime. I work at a municipal wastewater treatment plant and they have a very stringent LO/TO policy that requires placing cones and taping off any electrical panels while they are open. Even though sometimes there is a lot of grumbling “we never used to have to do this”, we who do the work don’t make those rules, but we have to follow them to the letter or they make examples of those who don’t to reinforce expectations.
If the company truly enforced a “zero tolerance” policy, you wouldn’t still have a job. Be glad that you got a break.
Some companies have an appeals process where, if you have no more actions against you in a specified timeframe, then you could ask to have the record of the suspension removed from you employee record.
Make the most of your time off, reflect on what the company’s expectations of you for productivity and safety, and do your best to meet or exceed them.
Good luck with your return to work.

It's funny that all those measures and signs and stuff are supposed to warn people and keep them all safe, and yet everybody still has to touch it to make sure when there's a "fresh paint" sign.


Why take shortcuts when you can make sure that it takes as long and costs as much as possible. They should bring the power Co to cut power to the building while you've got that thing open, just in case.

At least now you know who you work with, took 13yrs but eh.

When you left for the break, (teckhnically end of shift) I'm pretty sure your locks should have come off, and a xsitional (yellow)
lock was supposed to be put on (and the panel locked with it as there is live power in there) and a note
on your yellow lock, as to what state you left it in (panel still hot inside)

So at least, when you went to break, you could leave your red locks on, but button up the panel.

Yes, prodcution was king before, but dead employees wrack up much fines for the new company too.

Where I work to open the panel you would have to first rope off the area with red crime scene tape, then put on your arc flash gear and open the panel. If you went to break, or to go get a fuse for example you would be fine.

But those are the policies in OUR shop not yours.

My issue with the whole thing was you should have been ON the clock when the whole discussion with the boss was going on, why they expected you to do that for "free" really eludes me. He should have had you punch in, have the meeting, handle the discipline, then punch out and start your two day suspension.

Our supervisors and the safety dept can and do take people clear up to the final discipline step (termination) on LOTO and other safety violations. But typically it is written (first) 3 days off (second within 1 year) and termination (3rd within 1 year) but they add up from the last, so 3 events 11 mos apart could get you fired.

Some other things like quality issues can be verbal (in writing), written, 3 days off, termination.

We not only must LOTO we must now have it verified in writing by a designated second party, may be a group leader or supervisor, and in some smaller depts it may be your co-worker.

The difficulty arises in some situations where equipment may have requirements the operators know of but maint. does not. Some things we can just lock an interlock gate and go in and tend to something, but there is a line in the same where a LOTO and verify is required, such as climbing in or on...or using a tool. We have tried to pin them down in writing about where that line is, they refuse to do so.

A full on loto-verify is at best a 7 minute production loss....which is quite significant. I had a "backup group leader" follow me INTO an interlocked safety cage a few weeks back, he was not SUPPOSED to enter without having a lock of his own in place, but he did not know that and refused to listen when I told him so. The guy really had no idea WHAT he was verifying, once I locked out tagged out the whole machine section I had no need to lock out the individual sander I was changing a belt on, but I DID have to lock the cage gate to ensure nobody could lock me inside, he should have placed a lock on the cage gate before entering.

It is confusing to be able to enter an area to do one thing by just locking the cage gate interlock open, and for something just a bit different have to do a loto-verify on the whole machine section.

Bill

wow, that had to, initially, be one of those stomach sinking, hard to breathe kind of feelings. I'm glad they didn't let you go. I could imagine myself wiping a cold sweat off my brow after that.

You know that won't ever happen again...

best to you on your days off!

If they didn't like you they woulda just fired you.

The way things are...if your boss had let it slide, he would have been holding the bag. Had there ever been an incident in the future, it would have come to light he let it slide and the he would be in deep trouble. Don't forget, at least one other person knew it happened and that's all it takes.

Don't let it bother you - just do your best in the future to keep in line with the safety policies. The bottom line is any large company would rather can their best employee if it means avoiding a safety incident.

I was a professional safety guy, if they wanted you gone, you'd be gone. LO/TO violations are life safety issues and typically zero tolerance, one and done kind of things. You're good work history saved your job, just so you know, and yes you are on a short chain for a while, but the fact that you still have a job means your hard work was recognized and taken into account. That is a good thing.

Yeah, any panel over 50 volts that has to be worked while having exposed energized components requires arc flash PPE. I am a huge fan of going up stream one switch if possible and working a dead cabinet. Makes life much easier.

Your right, my boss would have been nailed, had he not done something, and yes, they could have easily said good bye. I'm very fortunate. I have been on a short chain before with the old company, but that was because somebody was out to get me. Seriously. I was on top of a machine being called in on Easter Sunday. Several of us up there troubleshooting. The only way to get up was step on the last rung of the ladder and step over. It was observed, reported, and on up the chain it went while I diagnosed and got it going. An hour later the shift foreman comes up not to thank me, but tell me on Monday they were going to have to talk with me. You see, the guy that witnessed me was a buddy with this foreman. Years earlier I had gotten the operator written up because he was in a live panel making adjustments. Not a qualified person to be in there. Shift foreman was buddies with plant manager. Plant manager took it right to a final written. But things changed, that good ol' boy network is gone. They were all actually fired along the way. But, the old plant policy was after a year, it came off your record. I don't know what this new company policy is. I could be on a short chain watching over my shoulder for twenty years.

This new company is very consistent promoting of safety. We have had some terrible accidents in other plants. Since then, you better not bypass a safety switch to simply get a better view of an actuator. We had another plant where the electrician was checking for voltage with his meter. His probe went to ground and shorted causing an arc flash to occur. No injury, but he did not have his electrical gloves on. He was terminated. I was pretty fortunate and I'll bet all the guys, including myself, are a lot more careful going forward. I think we will also ask a lot more questions regarding some of the policies. I was with two other techs when this happened, but I was the one with his lock on the door. We will all be watching out for each other.

Limy Sami said:

My take

You are no longer wanted there, don't prolong the agony, it's time to pack your bags and move on.

Don't mess about, first thing, first shift back, go and hand in your notice, collect your tools and personal belongings and leave the plant immediately.


YMMV

Click to expand...

Oh hell yes, he is on his last warning. why wait?

Final warning may be a true hair-trigger path to dismissal, but I doubt it. If they wanted you out, this would have been the optimal time, and you'd be out. So they like you. You'll be in the penalty box for a while. So your job is to make it easy for them to defend their not dismissing you (and ti make sure that there are no add'l safety policy issues), and ensure they know you see things from their perspective.

So when you get back, talk to both your boss and emphasize that you "get it", and things will be by the book. You might also emphasize the history ("Remember when our safety process was way more lax, under XXXX? I do, and remember being the guy at my level that helped the new NFPA 70e workplace safety changes implemented. I feel I've been a leader in safety here, so this incident is embarrassing. I don't want either of us to face anything remotely like this again, so things will be by the book. Is there anything else you think we can improve?") This emphasizes that you and he(or she) are on the same side. If some evil mgmt overlord asks your boss "hey, why didn't we can this guy for this?", it gives your boss the excuse "Because he's a good worker who delivers, and in fact he's has been a leader in safety, and this was a momentary and highly procedural lapse".