Making an shop floor layout map in CAD or ??
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    Default Making an shop floor layout map in CAD or ??

    I am going to start making a master shop floor layout map for my company and would like to get some opinions from others that have done the same. First off the Layout map is going to be used for multiple different things. It will be primarily used by our engineering and facilities department for layout and machine install purposes. It will also be used by our safety team and leads on the floor for mapping out locations of different things.

    I have done plant floor layouts in Solidworks and draftsight before. Both work well but also have their limitations. I think it would be nice to do a full 3D model of the entire shop in Solidowks but I think something like that would take way too much time and would require a lot of time in upkeep as stings change.

    I am wondering if anyone has any ideas or suggestions.

    thank you in advance.

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    I had tried doing this with autocad a while back. I came to the conclusion that nothing seems to work as good as paper cutouts you can slide around on a desk top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickpnw View Post
    I am going to start making a master shop floor layout map for my company and would like to get some opinions from others that have done the same. First off the Layout map is going to be used for multiple different things. It will be primarily used by our engineering and facilities department for layout and machine install purposes. It will also be used by our safety team and leads on the floor for mapping out locations of different things.

    I have done plant floor layouts in Solidworks and draftsight before. Both work well but also have their limitations. I think it would be nice to do a full 3D model of the entire shop in Solidowks but I think something like that would take way too much time and would require a lot of time in upkeep as stings change.

    I am wondering if anyone has any ideas or suggestions.

    thank you in advance.
    A company I worked for built a new shop a few years ago. I modeled it all up in SW. I made the machines and all. What we ended up doing is make a scale cut out out plywood and using stiff postboard for the machines and then managment and the employees were able to move things around arrange it like they wanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I had tried doing this with autocad a while back. I came to the conclusion that nothing seems to work as good as paper cutouts you can slide around on a desk top.
    Which is why you draw it in autocad, then print it twice, and cut one version out with an exacto knife. Just make sure to also draw the forklifts. Drawing forklifts with a left & right turn radius, as well as fork length, also helps considerably for setting up floor plans.

    For added flexibility, you get yourself some magnetic business card stock, and put magnets on the machines in question.

    A good laser tape measure will save you ridiculous amounts of time. Even more useful would be a total station...but few places would care to hire a survey crew to record points for the digital layout of their shop. However, if I was doing a full 3D layout, I don't think I'd want to do it any other way.

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    We use AutoCad from the master design of the architects as the original base. We did update it for "As Built" as far as column placement, etc. Our entire 3 building manufacturing campus is in this file, including any underground piping etc. If you do the machines as blocks, it's not difficult to manage. Most machine tool vendors have layout prints you can use. We have started to do a lot more in 3D Inventor, works fine for new equipment where 3D models are available from the vendors, but it SUCKS for old equipment that those are not available for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munruh View Post
    A company I worked for built a new shop a few years ago. I modeled it all up in SW. I made the machines and all. What we ended up doing is make a scale cut out out plywood and using stiff postboard for the machines and then managment and the employees were able to move things around arrange it like they wanted.
    Maybe I will do something like that. We have a big plotter so I could print out the basic shop floor with all the walls and doors then make cut outs of all the machinery to move around as needed.

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    I use grid paper cutouts and mark on them were the operator is standing ... 1/4" grid to the foot and its easy to lay it out and WAY faster than trying to do a cad drawing in my book ,,,, I got them as I wanted them then put tape on them and ran a couple copys to mark up and use for machine placement

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    When I did this for a living, we only had 2-d autocad.
    I had several layers, some turned off most of the time.
    The building collumns is on, but the pilings/foundations for them is on a separate layer (labeled as such) is usually off.

    Any cranes, I have a layer for the coverage area,
    sometimes on, sometimes off (easier to see)
    Physically measure the actual hook placement,
    as travelling bridge cranes are not symmetrical,
    to plot your dashed lines for crane coverage.

    Sewers, water lines, air lines, etc underground
    needs their own layers, usefull when a machine
    is going to be put somewhere, turn on those
    layers and see if there is any conflicts.

    And of course, a "electrical clearance" layer,
    dotted lines showing the required 36" electrical clearances around switches, panels, etc.

    Aisle lines can be a layer too.

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    You can add machine operators in too. Suddenly that nice space becomes a whole lot tighter.

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    Solidworks is a pretty cumbersome approach. But if you're willing to go that far, it'll do the whole thing. Trouble
    is to get the accurate field measurements to feed the tool.

    Also there's autocad Revit which is a purpose-built design tool for this sort of thing. Never used it but supposedly
    becoming an industry standard. YMMV.

    Honestly I do lab and shop layouts in a 2D cad system. But that's only a starting point. Eventually those
    are done by a bunch of pros with multilayer plan and elevation views. But those invariably fail because they cannot
    represent all the possible interference problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwelo62 View Post
    You can add machine operators in too. Suddenly that nice space becomes a whole lot tighter.
    Its ALWAYS tighter in real life than it is on paper (that's what she said)...

    5 feet is a nice WIDE aisle, fit a pallet down it and everything.. Until you realize that you have
    a CNC control hangin in the way. Air hoses, material carts etc....

    If you have the luxury.. and the floor is clear.. Get out there with some tape, and mark it off..
    And remember, it will feel a lot tighter when there is actual height to the taped off squares.
    Doing this a few times, I'd add 18-24 inches to the front(operator side) of every machine, just for dead space and
    figuring it all out.

    Keep the power hogs close to the electrical panels. Wire is f'n expensive.. BIG wire is really
    F'n EXPENSIVE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Its ALWAYS tighter in real life than it is on paper (that's what she said)...

    5 feet is a nice WIDE aisle, fit a pallet down it and everything.. Until you realize that you have
    a CNC control hangin in the way. Air hoses, material carts etc....

    If you have the luxury.. and the floor is clear.. Get out there with some tape, and mark it off..
    And remember, it will feel a lot tighter when there is actual height to the taped off squares.
    Doing this a few times, I'd add 18-24 inches to the front(operator side) of every machine, just for dead space and
    figuring it all out.

    Keep the power hogs close to the electrical panels. Wire is f'n expensive.. BIG wire is really
    F'n EXPENSIVE.
    +About a million.

    I planned out the shop in CAD, everything fit so nice, then when I started moving machines in, it all went to crap in a heart beat.

    Got about 15,000 sqft of machine tools to cram into 3200 sqft. And I also work on heavy equipment and farm machinery, that stuff eats up a lot of open floor space.

    Need to start working on a larger building with overhead cranes.

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    So I guess here is the next question. If I can pitch the need for any program to management for creating and maintaining a building layout what would be the best program to use and what would be the best program to learn?

    draftsight is the only 2d program I have used so far. I would like to learn a new program so maybe try autocad or something similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickpnw View Post
    So I guess here is the next question. If I can pitch the need for any program to management for creating and maintaining a building layout what would be the best program to use and what would be the best program to learn?

    draftsight is the only 2d program I have used so far. I would like to learn a new program so maybe try autocad or something similar.
    From what I've seen of draftsight, it is a copy of autocad.

    You should be able to all I described up above, not needing a new program, nor the expense & learning curve
    of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    From what I've seen of draftsight, it is a copy of autocad.

    You should be able to all I described up above, not needing a new program, nor the expense & learning curve
    of it.
    I will probably just get AutoCAD or Draftsight. We currently have neither program. I figure if we are going to buy something new I may as well learn a new program that I can add to my skill set. If Draftsight or AutoCad is the best program for me to know I will just build my skills on those programs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickpnw View Post
    So I guess here is the next question. If I can pitch the need for any program to management for creating and maintaining a building layout what would be the best program to use and what would be the best program to learn?

    draftsight is the only 2d program I have used so far. I would like to learn a new program so maybe try autocad or something similar.
    You might look into software for architects and furnishing designers. I had a sample program when I layed out my house. I still went with the cutouts on the coffee table approach. But this sample program I had, you could lay out the floor plan, then add sofas, pool table, dining table, etc. Then it was like a virtual reality deal where you could walk around inside and see how things were really going to look.

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    K.I.S.S.
    Keep it simple.
    2D, grid with 1 foot spacing. Print out a blank shop length and width border with grid.
    Then draw the machine outlines, print that sheet out, cut them out with scissors, and place them on the blank paper layout.

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    I did a layout for a shop reorganization a year ago . I used a cheap drawing package called serif drawplus. (similar in fuction to corel) as i was familiar with its operation. It worked out fine everything fitted pretty much where it was supposed to and was easy to reorganise as required.



    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by munruh View Post
    A company I worked for built a new shop a few years ago. I modeled it all up in SW. I made the machines and all. What we ended up doing is make a scale cut out out plywood and using stiff postboard for the machines and then managment and the employees were able to move things around arrange it like they wanted.
    A shop I used to work for did this, except the owner cut out 3D foam cutouts of each machine using a band saw. It made it very easy to try lots of different layouts.

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    Laying out shop floors and plant is almost a trade / science in itself, .....IMHO, unless you are fully versed with the ''dark art'' I would stick the paper and card cut out method, .......against a scaled squared back ground it's easy to move things ''just so'' ............and when space is tight a couple of inches makes all the difference.

    FWIW Several folk who have seen my 20ft ISO containers shop, including the late Mark McGrath almost gasp ''how did you get it all in?'' etc etc, ....and in the case of Mark, he stood back, looked around then moved from machine to machine to bench etc etc etc .then said ''Aye bit f'kn tight Sami, but it works - doesn't it.'' ...............with just the hint of approval, which from him I took as praise indeed.

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