Manual lathe replacement

We are a very large shop consisting of many machines. 17 manual lathes 10 of which are Monarch 10EE. Some folks have it in their mind that these machines are no good and are looking for replacements, though some of these people have not run any poor quality lathe to compare with.

aside from that. What current manual lathes would you recommend for a toolroom/jobshop lathe? Price Is a non issue.
Hardinge would be next best in my eyes but I have not traveled the world.

I would hate to see these go but I am not in charge.

Thank you for your input.

well its best to use any lathe that you think you like to test it out, say long thin turning, between centres, drilling, small parts, how heavy a cut , how light a cut etc what threads it can cut, speed range say from 20 rpm to 2000 ( at least ).

Try Takang Takang USA Inc and Takisawa. TAL-Series｜Takisawa Machine Tool Co., Ltd. Colchester Homepage - Colchester

I like it to have a foot brake, two speed tailstock feed and disc brake. You set the options get them to make it happen.
Personal choice requires some use of various types to make your mind up on, also there may be other brands to seek out and check.

Just because the lathe is old doesn't mean it cannot do good work, i worked on various types to get work done, however some are much easier to do the same things on, pitty i didn't see the no name brand was at my old workplace.
It was truely a pleasure to work with, take 0.0001" cuts at 2000rpm or heavy cuts, no taper no vibration really good, the closest i have seen of type and style is the takang appearance wise.

BSCustoms said:

We are a very large shop consisting of many machines. 17 manual lathes 10 of which are Monarch 10EE. Some folks have it in their mind that these machines are no good and are looking for replacements, though some of these people have not run any poor quality lathe to compare with.

aside from that. What current manual lathes would you recommend for a toolroom/jobshop lathe? Price Is a non issue.
Hardinge would be next best in my eyes but I have not traveled the world.

I would hate to see these go but I am not in charge.

Thank you for your input.

Click to expand...

Ten 10EE under the same roof? I am sure we would like to know what those other seven are!

Someone should contact Monarch Lathe LP and have an adult conversation about possible futures for the 10EE's

If they are suited to the work to-hand, but just getting on in years, and if I were the 'decision maker', I'd explore the costs of a rolling refresh to new specs - or near-as-dammit - one or two at a time.

Anything in the way of manual lathes as could go head-to-head with a 10EE would also need serious refurb by now.

Surprised they are not looking to CNC, where some of the accuracy is created on-the-fly by smart 'tronics, rather than ALL of it being anchored 'passively' in great masses of metal.

I love 10EE, but as a bidnessman, 'large shop', I'd have HAD TO HAVE rolled-in CNC 'a while' ago and just "dealt with" the changeover costs & staff re-training.

JM2CW Retired here. Those still in harness may see these differently.


Bill

Street said:

well its best to use any lathe that you think you like to test it out, say long thin turning, between centres, drilling, small parts, how heavy a cut , how light a cut etc what threads it can cut, speed range say from 20 rpm to 2000 ( at least ).

Try Takang Takang USA Inc and Takisawa. TAL-Series｜Takisawa Machine Tool Co., Ltd. Colchester Homepage - Colchester

I like it to have a foot brake, two speed tailstock feed and disc brake. You set the options get them to make it happen.
Personal choice requires some use of various types to make your mind up on, also there may be other brands to seek out and check.

Just because the lathe is old doesn't mean it cannot do good work, i worked on various types to get work done, however some are much easier to do the same things on, pitty i didn't see the no name brand was at my old workplace.
It was truely a pleasure to work with, take 0.0001" cuts at 2000rpm or heavy cuts, no taper no vibration really good, the closest i have seen of type and style is the takang appearance wise.

Click to expand...

???

You smokin' sumthin?

Or just not yet old enough to do so legally?

Monarchist said:

Ten 10EE under the same roof? I am sure we would like to know what those other seven are!

Someone should contact Monarch Lathe LP and have an adult conversation about possible futures for the 10EE's

If they are suited to the work to-hand, but just getting on in years, and if I were the 'decision maker', I'd explore the costs of a rolling refresh to new specs - or near-as-dammit - one or two at a time.

Anything in the way of manual lathes as could go head-to-head with a 10EE would also need serious refurb by now.

Surprised they are not looking to CNC, where some of the accuracy is created on-the-fly by smart 'tronics, rather than ALL of it being anchored 'passively' in great masses of metal.

I love 10EE, but as a bidnessman, 'large shop', I'd have HAD TO HAVE rolled-in CNC 'a while' ago and just "dealt with" the changeover costs & staff re-training.

JM2CW Retired here. Those still in harness may see these differently.


Bill

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That is just in one area of the shop. 5 of them are about 7 years old. yes we also have CNC. But sometimes jobs are best done on a good ol' accurate manual. I understand the value of CNC machines but cannot let go of the heritage with these machines. They can turn out great parts and they have been around a long time. Same reason I am so connected to our 1936 G&E shaper.

Why don't you get them fully rebuilt? You can get the beds grounds and everything rescraped into alignment if anything they will be better than new. Not by Monarch though. Its 55k for a rebuild or 155k for a new lathe with basically everything. Also I've heard some not so good things about their scraping department. If you really want top quality, the only way to go is rebuilt machine route. I don't know what type of work you're doing but the rebuilder will probably tailor the rebuild to what work you do.

The next step is finding a rebuilder and grinding shop. There isn't much of outstanding rebuilders here in the PNW. I know of a really good grinding shop in California. I know three or four rebuilders over here in the PNW. Though they typically rebuild very large machines. You might have to fly in a really good rebuilder.

If you want to buy rebuilt machines of high quality Here: Verkaufte Drehmaschinen - Ruemema

Here is a thread of when a member toured his shop: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/iron-tour-2015-lots-pics-301415/index6.html

Here is a thread when the forum member went back with a friend who was looking for a lathe: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/year-visit-ruemema-318515/

If they really want new lathes. They better be ready to hunt for them. I can't think of one brand that still makes lathes as good as they once were. Also IIRC Hardinge stopped making lathes.

I had some lathe companies that still make lathes Typed out; Though I cannot wholeheartedly recommend them after looking over them once more. They look like they were thrown together and machined in the fastest way possible. They don't have the quality the companies once put into their machines.

If you guys do make a choice let us know. A shop such as yours isn't something usual around here.

We just picked up a HWACHEON HL-460 and we like it very much. Nothing on it screams of "cheap" at all. We have a Monarch 650 a Clausing and two import South Bends. The HWACHEON is better than the last three. I do love our old Monarch 650.

BSCustoms said:

Monarch 10EE. Some folks have it in their mind that these machines are no good and are looking for replacements, though some of these people have not run any poor quality lathe to compare with.

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For the life of me I just can't figure out why American industry has a hard time competing with others who have less resources. I just can't figure it out. Somebody call Sherlock Holmes please.

No offense intended for the messenger.

Hello BsCustoms,
Replace or refurbish only the machines that need to go and keep the rest. This decision should only be made by the machinist who runs them. So far as what to replace them with; BUY AMERICAN. When all is done, put in place a maintenance program.
otrlt

Anyone who thinks a 7 year old 10EE is a pile of junk that needs replaced, either has no clue, has the 10EE out in a cornfield with the rain on it, or has one that was hit by a truck, or similarly trashed. .

Seriously, what do they think is better than one of the best machines ever made? All there is to complain about is maybe capacity; swing and C-C distance.

I agree with JST. Before jumping, find out from the people that use them what they dislike about the lathes.

Tom

Granite way, air bearing lathe is the only option from there. High precision air bearing CNC lathe and grinder - YouTube

Try Takisawa.

Try Schaublin

Hardinge doesn't make manuals anymore.

What on earth does your shop do where you need 17 manuals, 7 of which are 10ees?

JST said:

All there is to complain about is maybe capacity; swing and C-C distance.

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LOL! Well.. there ARE those...

10EE makes a poor sub for a 12-foot bed 30 incher.

Seriously - in c-to-c daylight alone, it is hard to love 'em commercially.

Too much as just cannot fit once workholding and tooling are 'there'.

May as well have fewer, lighter, faster CNC critters if that small work envelope actually fits the need.

Manual lathe needs a highly skilled operator per-each, and full-time.

CNC you can stratify and share-out the staff skillsets, get 'er done with roving expertise and good records of what worked well last time.

If that wasn't long-since proven more practical and profitable, there'd be more brand-new 10EE in the market and fewer CNC goods.

I can understand a shop wanting to progress. I have a harder time with understanding the 'manual' dictate on that many machines.

Even so, if there is sumthin' so unusual as to have kept that many 10EE this long - they should inquire as to costs of bringing them up to best they can be, and continue that march.


Bill

If you're looking to replace the 10EE's with a similar size and quality machine a rebuilding program may be the way to go. Between the 2 main shops where I worked we had about the same number of Tree milling machines. There were a couple different manual models and some CNC's.

The company searched out machine builders in our area and invited several in to discuss a rebuild program. When all was said and done we contracted with a company in Racine Wisconsin (not Tree) to do a round robin rebuild program. The builder would bring a freshly rebuilt machine to our shop and take the worn machines one at a time to their shop. Depending on their work load and the condition of the machines it would take between 3 and 5 months to rebuild one and return it.

They did excellent quality work and kept us up to speed as to the cost and amount of time it would take to rebuild each machine. It took roughly 3 years to rebuild all the machines in the shops.

Our local technical college does the same thing with their Bridgeport mills. Every year the send out machines 2 at a time to be rebuilt. In their case they have a couple dozen machines so it takes 4 years to do a complete turn around. When they are rebuilt they are also updated with conveniences such as DRO's, power X and Y feeds, and power drawbars. A machine usually lasts 8-10 years before needing to go back. Some of the machines date back to the 1970's, so they've been through the process multiple times. Even at 40+ years old they run as good today as they did when they were built.

We liked the model so well we setup a similar program to rebuild some food production machinery. In this case we had our own in house shop setup to round robin 42 machines. We brought in machines from across the nation by commercial carrier. When they were completed they went back to their original manufacturing location. When all the machines in one production facility were completed the "round robin" machine came back to the shop. It was inspected and brought back to "like new" condition before being sent on to the next production facility. In all cases the cost to rebuild current machines cost between 40% and 50% of buying new.

At the end of each rebuild cycle the company would assess the machines to see if they were still appropriate for the type of work we were doing, or product they were producing. In some cases the machines had been eclipsed by a faster more cost effective next generation. In those cases the older machines were retired and kept for spare parts to support those still in production. In other cases a schedule was setup for another trip through the rebuild shop. Some machines have been rebuilt multiple times and are still in production. I'm sure in time they will be replaced by newer faster machines, but until that time they'll keep plugging away.

Thank you for the valuable input everyone! Please keep it coming.

As I said, I in no way think any of these machines should leave. Even the poorest condition one is better than the next available new machine. Unfortunately manuals have to be replaced with manuals. I wouldn't mind one of the hardinge CNC lathes.

I very much agree that if you aren't happy with a pristine condition 10EE, it is best you leave the trade. But if you have only ever driven a Rolls Royce. you don't know how bad a gremlin can be.

Please keep the info coming. I hope that I can change some minds when they see that the world agrees to keep these machines if at all possible.

Thank you.

1118H | Sharp Industries

sharp hlv

http://www.lathes.co.uk/feeler/

http://www.lathes.co.uk/cyclematic/

tnmgcarbide said:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/feeler/

http://www.lathes.co.uk/cyclematic/

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How could a Sharpe or cyclematic be an upgrade from a 10EE?