Mill and Lathe buying questions and other related questions....

Hi all,

I am looking at purchasing my 1st mill and possibly a second lathe. I run a tobacco farm here in Zimbabwe and most of my machining is to repair or make broken parts for various implements and gadgets on the farm.

I don't know much about mills but kick myself weekly for letting a bridgeport with non working DRO slip through my fingers for U$2500. So now am looking at an Indian milling machine, HMT, FN2U machine # 2955. Don't know when it was made, possibly 70's or 80's? There is no tooling for it so will be looking for machine vise, rotary table and collet system, etc. So the question is, how decent are these machines? Not sure if it is going to be too big for what I need but at $1800 dont think I can complain. It is currently getting its electrics checked out as during the move, the seller cut some cables. How do I check how worn the bed and head is? What other things should I be looking for. Have found a company in the US that stocks some spares, but they haven't responded to me regarding parts, operators manuals and spec sheets. Contacting Indian companies is a joke, like Alibaba. What are your thoughts.Is this machine a knock off of a western machine?

I already have a Colchester Master Mark 2 square head and runs reasonably well, other than noisy and a leaking a bit of gear box oil, which I have found is common for these English machines. They can conquer the world, but can't make non leaking machines )Only issue with this lathe is bed is a bit small for some jobs and the bore is small too (38mm) as I use a lot of 40-50mm stock. The same guy has a Chinese lathe, CY- L1660G, early 1990's model and reasonable shape. Same price as the mill, only lacking the 4 jaw. Many comments I have read here mention rather buying English and American old iron is better but here in Zim there are loads of old machines that have been worked hard and in very rough shape. I was thinking of getting this as a second machine so don't have to send out axles and harrow shafts to other engineering shops, about 2.5 hrs drive away.

Has anyone had any experience with these machines? Any other thoughts I should be looking at and options? My back ground is a farmer and 1 started machining several years on a small Colt, (myford super 7 knock off) self taught and watching the pros on you tube.

Other related questions....
My wife is currently in the states putting a container together of household stuff to ship here and was wanting to buy a bunch of second hand machine tools that I guess some shops sell by the bucket load for $20. I bought some cutters and tapered drills couple of years ago from a chap in Virginia. wish I had bought more but kida of heavy to take on the plane. Has anyone got contacts who deals in this stuff?

Will try to figure out how to post photos for ya'll to see.

Thanks for the help.
Greg

Your first problem is being where you are. Everything will always be more expensive than in a more industrial oriented area. Like so many threads in the archives here, know your requirements. Don't buy too small. Larger is always better. Next, always buy machines with spindles and quills for which tools and accessories are common, readily available and inexpensive. Avoid Indian and Chinese made machines because of the lack of support and parts availability. Korean and Taiwan made machines are the exception. However, you will notice that their prices will reflect these facts. It is important to note that acquisition cost will not be your major expense, tooling and accessories will be.

From your 40mm comment, my guess would be a lathe with D1-6 spindle would be the correct size with a minimum of 40" between centers. I also suspect that a Bp size mill with a R8 or 30 taper spindle would be too light. I suspect a medium size 40 taper machine is more appropriate. Both the D1-6 and 40 taper offers more common and less expensive tooling. The downside of these machines will be their size and weight. The upside of these choices is that the machine size is beyond the hobby size and will be less expensive to buy.

Is this the mill?
Knee Type Milling Machine FN2/FN3 | HMT MT
The current one shows 1500Kw motor or about 7.25 Horsepower so bigger then a bridgeport.
It does not say what taper the spindle is?
Bill D

HMT is Hindustan Machine Tool. I don't know about the mill, but HMT made most of my American 20 lathe.
That is without the head stock gearing and the electrical. It has been a flawless machine.

a big mill like that one has a powerful spindle and rigid table - great for heavy face milling big slabs of material,
making large holes..... the spindle is slow, so forget about using cutters under 1/2" or so. and forget about drilling
and tapping ,since there is no sensitive quill feed.

if you're only going to have one mill in your shop, i'd strongly suggest a bridgeport -style turret mill. it will do so
much more than a simple milling machine , and is about 5x faster to setup and break down. you can run anything from
a 1/8" endmill to a 3" facemill .

it won't hog steel , but it will drill and tap or cut a 3/16 keyway ,and spins fast enough to get a decent finish on
softer metals and plastics

good luck

Pass on the mill. Lathe is a good HD machine but, run under power to check all functions.
spindle could be a D1-8 judging from the size compaired to the chuck. Most older machine tools will not be easy to source parts for no matter where made.

I can't remember properly but the mill looks like something I ran into a few years ago. It looks like all the controls for feeds are straight in the electrical box that doesn't look to be in decent shape. You might rather think about passing on it because it doesn't look great and the electrics might give you nightmares trying to figure it out. If you are willing to bypass those things and just get it up and running without the feeds then I suggest that you make sure that the gear that drives the vertical spindle is there and in tact. Then move the table to all places manually and push and pull on it to see how much play there is. Also make sure that all the gibs are there. It looks like a solid machine but if you cannot inspect it powered up rather walk away.

The lathe is a generic CY chinese lathe. The spares for them are interchangeable with a lot of other chinese lathes. They are not bad at all (we have had 3 of them in the past and actually recently sold out 2M CY that was about 2 years old) but spindle bearings are sometimes not that great. It doesn't look like it has the feed rapids on that one but inspect the feed engagement nicely to see if anything is missing. You might be able to get a manual for it from "Toolquip and Allied" over here. They sold them for a few years and I think they still sell the newer one's. They might even be a source for spares for you.

Thanks Nast55, didnt think to call Toolquip, will do so later. I don't see myself doing a lot of work on the CY unless it can't be worked on the Colchester.

Regarding the mill, the seller has an electrician working on the electrics as some cables got cut during the move. He assures me the machine was working a year ago before put into storage. The head has been removed to give it a service and clean.

Here is what has been in the back of my mind lately.... I am not really wanting to set up a machine shop but with no one around doing the work and if I have the chinese lathe I can get a local machinist to do the work on an hourly rate when I have work to do, as I have been doing the odd machining jobs for a couple of farmers around me in my spare time. Now busy season is about to kick off, i won't have that luxury. Ultimately I would love a bridgeport.

Hopefully these two machines will be running when I visit them tomorrow.

Whereabouts in Zim are you?
It's always a tough one to decide to rely on someone else on a contract basis but if you find the right person I am sure it will be a great idea seeing that farmers always have things breaking and need maintenance that is not always readily available. I've had some guys drive pretty damn far to us or other shops in Joburg because there aren't any close to them. Sometimes their traveling alone costs more than repairs but a lot of them are so wealthy that Ive never understood why they don't buy a few basic machines to keep on their farms to do general repair work that takes a bit more than using an angle grinder and a welding machine.

When you have a look at the lathe tomorrow see if you can spot a manufacture date or a serial number. I have a few contacts at toolquip that might be able to help out with spares and a manual for it. Unfortunately toolquip is not what it used to be and a lot of their "technicians" and sales people are pretty damn useless. Over the years we have bought machines from their stores when they are doing an audit that were donor machines for one's they had sold and no one knew how to fix... got quite a few bargains and since we are in the machine tool sales business their loss and idiocy has often been our gain.

I am in the north, town called Karoi about 220 kms north of Harare. I have always had a difficult time dealing with Joburg Toolquip. I use the Maritzburg branch to get my quote and then send the x border runner to collect from Joburg. I was down there about 5 years ago getting tools for a friends lathe and they had mentioned they sold a number of lathes for far less than thier cost. At the that time all sounded very expensive as didnt have any bench marks to go by.
What do you think of Rand and Bolt? My runner prefers them. Haven't dealt with them at all. Will check for those numbers tomorrow but think its a 1994 machine.
Cheers,
Greg

No experience with them... checked their site out and they seem to be more hobby orientated but I could be wrong. But hey, if you get things there at decent prices then I say go for it!

Let me know if you need help getting something to hold on to here for you whenever your border runner comes over.

Update...
I have decided to pass on the mill. Electrics are worse than I was lead to believe. Main motor is burnt too. Guy is increasing the price to cover the incurred costs for the repair. So the search for a turret mill is still on going.
Funny enough the lathe motor is burnt too. Same applies here with the cost.

I went by to look at a Elliot 1250 Studermill that has been sitting for a few years in an auction yard, in the warehouse of course. They have been stuck on $3000 for several years, so may put in a low offer provided they can find all the cranks and bits. Photos to follow.