Mill vice jaws for saw cut material

will gilmore · Oct 12, 2017

This is a new one for me. I need to hold 9"x9"x1" A36 plates in a 6" vice. Nothing too strenuous. Drill/tap a few holes. Alignment not critical. Material is potentially saw cut by supplier. -0 +1/16" no spec on parallelism. I was thinking of putting a jaw with a step on the back of the vice and another one on the front of the moving jaw but I'm worried about the surface and parallelism of the material. Any tricks here?

Kingbob · Oct 12, 2017

Sounds like a plan to me.I'd use aluminum soft jaws so the saw cut steel could bite in and maybe run a 1/4 endmill about 1/16th below the surface of the step and a woodruff cutter along the bottom of the step to relieve the corners. Then just whack it with a deadblow and you are as straight, square, and parallel as the saw cut surface allows.

Erich · Oct 12, 2017

Place a 3/8 inch diameter cylinder of Al or brass between the work and the moving jaw. Put on center in line with the screw. That will make sure the work is not held on just one edge of the part.

HuFlungDung · Oct 12, 2017

There's not a lot of swivel ability in a good vise, if the stock does not have almost perfectly parallel sides. That would be my main concern, although squareness in the vertical plane is also important if the part needs to have holes put through vertically.

Since I have them available to me, I'd probably use my VersaGrip vise jaws to hold the part. Perhaps two grips spaced wide on the back jaw, and one centered in the movable jaw, creating 3 point contact no matter how poor the surfaces are to begin with (within reason).

I've been bit more than once by not machining some sort of reference surface on 'rough work', especially if it comes back and the guy wants another hole or feature added....then, where the hell is everything? I'd be tempted to set up my large angle plate, clamp all these to it, and face the edges quick and dirty with a facemill in jog mode.

will gilmore · Oct 12, 2017

Thanks for the replies. I learned something from each of them.

I'll see how the material comes in. Not too worried about adding features after the fact. I can always probe the holes. I think I'll try it with step jaws and then go for versa grips if the material seems badly out of parallel or edges are not square.

Mike1974 · Oct 13, 2017

HuFlungDung said:
There's not a lot of swivel ability in a good vise, if the stock does not have almost perfectly parallel sides. That would be my main concern, although squareness in the vertical plane is also important if the part needs to have holes put through vertically.

Since I have them available to me, I'd probably use my VersaGrip vise jaws to hold the part. Perhaps two grips spaced wide on the back jaw, and one centered in the movable jaw, creating 3 point contact no matter how poor the surfaces are to begin with (within reason).

I've been bit more than once by not machining some sort of reference surface on 'rough work', especially if it comes back and the guy wants another hole or feature added....then, where the hell is everything? I'd be tempted to set up my large angle plate, clamp all these to it, and face the edges quick and dirty with a facemill in jog mode.

I don't see these mentioned nearly as much as talon grips, but man are they sweet! AND they can do more or less everything talon grips do, plus more (rounds anyone?), you can rotate them in the pocket to accommodate almost anything IMO.

for those who are not familiar..

VersaGrip™ | Mitee-Bite Products LLC.

michiganbuck · Oct 13, 2017

9" rectangle in a 6" vise. One good trick is a to use hold down so the moving jaw only pushes the part to the squareness of the solid jaw. I have simply used a 1/8 x .020 shim for a pusher off the solid jaw..another good trick is to use a small mill jack under an overhanging end if drilling places in the overhang area. yet another good trick is to forget the vise and set a wide part on the table perhaps C clamped to a cube or angle plate. another is lay two shim strips under part so a dead hammer wack can seat the part dead square to the bottom of a vise and feel the shim tells it is square. another good trick is to mount a stop block on a table so a part can be reset in a vise or to a angle plate if needing to set it back in the set-up. Another trick is to mark the set-to-the-vise side so all machining is off that same side so if squaring the part later all aspects can be square to a side....and make the set-side the gauge line so later squaring will keep the part on spec.

DMF_TomB · Oct 13, 2017

will gilmore said:
This is a new one for me. I need to hold 9"x9"x1" A36 plates in a 6" vice. Nothing too strenuous. Drill/tap a few holes. Alignment not critical. Material is potentially saw cut by supplier. -0 +1/16" no spec on parallelism. I was thinking of putting a jaw with a step on the back of the vice and another one on the front of the moving jaw but I'm worried about the surface and parallelism of the material. Any tricks here?

.
.
1) larger pieces bow up when vise tightened. you need to watch that.
.
2) piece of plywood between jaw and part will crush and conform to saw cut part. but watch air gun when vise loose. often little wood pieces like tongue depressors or craft sticks tend to go flying with air gun use
.
3) if you mount to table with plywood under part you can machine the saw cut edges. then it will go in vise better
.
plate on table picture showing it pushed against stops. stops can be lower if needed. hold downs are used if needed too

otrlt · Oct 13, 2017

Hello Will,
Check this website; visecleats.com. We've sold dozens in your area, but most of our sales are in the Cleveland/Detroit region.
otrlt

EPAIII · Oct 13, 2017

Yes, you are going to need some extensions on those vise jaws. As for the questionable parallelism, I would first just try them and see how it goes. Then, if needed, I would add a thickness or two of cardboard or if extreme, a thin strip of wood.

But really, I would not use the vise for this. I have three stops for locating things on my mill table and a good set of clamps. I would install the stops and use some spacers along with my clamp set. That way each piece would go down in the same location and I could use the same dial readings or DRO settings or CAM routine if you have that.

will gilmore · Oct 13, 2017

Otrlt - I took a quick look on my phone but anything that would work on the back side of the fixed jaw?

Epaiii - what kind of clamps? I have the milling clamps with the step blocks but those are a hassle swap parts. I was thinking of the vice because it's quick to load and I can drill through the part.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

otrlt · Oct 13, 2017

Hello Will,
My production model 200's can be attached on the backside of the fixed jaw, but there isn't a sufficient ledge that it can rest on. I have produced a set for a Die shop in Ohio that did just that. They apparently were pleased with them, they ordered 3 more sets. I do encourage you to follow my knife edged grip geometry.

The key is to "grip not pinch" as high up as possible on the stock's edge. This grip geometry works very well with even just a 1/4" deep step. Also, if your saw cut is not very parallel use brass or copper shims. In closing, I must add, that if this set-up is increasingly common to your operations you may want to consider a 4-jaw chuck.
Workholding is my business Will, feel free to contact me anytime with any questions.
otrlt

EPAIII · Oct 16, 2017

Spacers solve the drill through problem and if you miss and drill into one, it is a lot less expensive to replace than a vise.

There are all kinds of clamps. You only mentioned drilling and tapping holes so almost any kind of clamp would work and you would probably only need two, one on each side/end. A lever action one would probably be best. And using locators for three point location of the piece would allow fast set-up. I guess the vise with some shop made jaw extensions may be faster to use but only by a few seconds per part, so it may depend on how many parts you have to make and how long it will take to make those jaws. A few seconds more per piece with clamps vs. whatever time or money needed for those vise jaw extensions is the equation.

I was imagining a couple of locator points on the rear and a third on the (left) side and a clamp on each side with a spacer (1/2" to 1" high) under each side edge. You loosen the clamps but leave them in place, slide the complete part out the front. Slide the next one in from the front and then tighten the clamps back down while holding the part against the locator points. Can't take more than 10 or 15 seconds. Smear some grease on the bottom of the spacers to hold them in place on the table while all that sliding is going on.

Anyway, that was my take on it. I know there are guys out there who never take the vise off the milling table. A 24 to 36 inch wide table and a 6" or 8" vise width is all of it they ever use.

will gilmore said:
Otrlt - I took a quick look on my phone but anything that would work on the back side of the fixed jaw?

Epaiii - what kind of clamps? I have the milling clamps with the step blocks but those are a hassle swap parts. I was thinking of the vice because it's quick to load and I can drill through the part.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

LKeithR · Oct 16, 2017

Kingbob said:
...Sounds like a plan to me.I'd use aluminum soft jaws so the saw cut steel could bite in ...

Make the jaws a little taller and machine a narrow step in each one. Make the steps about 1/2" higher than the top of the vise so
you can drill through the workpiece without injuring the vise...

DMF_TomB said:
.

1) larger pieces bow up when vise tightened. you need to watch that...

Holy shit! If you can bow a 9" wide x 1" thick piece of steel in a 6" vise you must be one mean mother... :eek:

CountryBoy19 · Oct 16, 2017

Erich said:
Place a 3/8 inch diameter cylinder of Al or brass between the work and the moving jaw. Put on center in line with the screw. That will make sure the work is not held on just one edge of the part.

While I understand this is common when clamping a part deeper, in between the vice jaws, I'm not sure this is a good idea when clamping with the jaws on the outside of the vice. The small bite will tend to want to "squeeze" the 3/8 rod up and the part will kick out of the vice. BTDT.

Bobw · Oct 16, 2017

CountryBoy19 said:
While I understand this is common when clamping a part deeper, in between the vice jaws, I'm not sure this is a good idea when clamping with the jaws on the outside of the vice. The small bite will tend to want to "squeeze" the 3/8 rod up and the part will kick out of the vice. BTDT.

I never use a rod or dowel.. When I'm playing with the saw cut stuff (which seems like always), I
use a piece of aluminum. I have a bunch of 1x1/2 and 1x1 blocks that I use. The saw cut edges
will usually bite into the ali, using maybe an inch wide of contact..

working on the outboard jaws, I've used a few thicknesses of plastic shim stock to even things out.

DMF_TomB · Oct 16, 2017

LKeithR said:
Make the jaws a little taller and machine a narrow step in each one. Make the steps about 1/2" higher than the top of the vise so
you can drill through the workpiece without injuring the vise...

Holy shit! If you can bow a 9" wide x 1" thick piece of steel in a 6" vise you must be one mean mother...

.
extremely easy to bow part up and i have seen it many times. often measures .001 smaller in center than near vise jaws. seen maybe a few thousand times over the years.
.
bowing depends on how deep into vise jaws. if 1" thick part into vise .188 or less the bowing is more than if in vise .250 or more

michiganbuck · Oct 16, 2017

Also easy to bow a little in the vise over size home made jaws..and the tendency to pull up the moving jaw to the limit of clearance, so chips can go under and jaw is not square vertically... Yes for a light simple drilling job not such a big deal..but sprung-a-little so being off square with part sides may cause part to pull out when drill breaks through..not a bad idea to have key slot parallels and hold downs for over vise size parts. also not a bad idea to have key-lock risers to hold a part off table.. yes so they can be easily locked down in a safe place and so chips cant go under.

Once you get used to a T-slot parallel (or keys) it becomes like the back rail on a surface grinder..very handy/fast and accurate.
Often you can just leave it there and use it when it is handy or for over-sized or odd-shape parts...

Agree you often cant beat the one handle of a vise for speed of set up.

DMF_TomB · Oct 16, 2017

grabbing plastic in mill vise the bowing up is not .001 but more like .010" to 0.100"
.
i often mill steel parts to a .001" or less flatness tolerance. can easily measure thickness variations with a regular micrometer. or put part on a surface plate and measure with indicator.

DMF_TomB · Oct 16, 2017

torch cut parts using a wood tongue depressor between rough surface and vise jaw it will crush and conform to torch cut surface or use plywood for bigger stuff. tongue depressor or craft sticks sometimes get a box at Walmart in craft section
.
just my experience over the years to watch the wood pieces go flying when using a air nozzle. i jammed a pallet/table changer mechanism once with a piece of plywood. took me over 1/2 hour to get wood piece out that was deep down into machine gap that was like a 1" wide at the top.

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