Minster#3 flywheel press Ticka-Ticka

Is it normal for the clutch on this thing to go "ticka-ticka-ticka" all day? I'm just waiting for it to grab & take off somebody's finger.
I know it is capable of not ticking -- after I accidentally ran the motor backwards, when we ran it the right way, it didn't tick any more.
Until we cycled the clutch. Then it went right back to ticking. Seems to me there should be something adjustable but it is so wretchedly filthy I can't even see the clutch. Only good thing about the sound is it make the operator aware the flywheel is running. Should I try to adjust the brake?

I hope you don't have employees with this press.
Looks like a serious lack of guarding or proper safety switches.
Dave

Adjust the brake a little tighter and see if it changes. If that does not help then loosen a little at a time. Pretty simple as it is just a brake that adjusts how far the crank coasts after the clutch dog disengages. You do NOT want it too loose as it may pick up the dog and go an extra round or two. Guard it well to keep fingers out.

Ed.

Thanks. This is a stock photo of one for sale, our actual press has some guards, but only a foot pedal and not a two-hand safety control. Definitely not NIOSH.
They take temps off the street and put them on this press with no "training." How do you train someone to have their fingers lopped off, at least we show them
where we keep the gauze. The ticking noise at least warns them that the flywheel is turning.

When I opened the control box, I found there is no disconnect or fuses. I had turned off the disconnect handle to work on the die, imagine my surprise to find the
switch was bypassed.

rabtrfld said:

I had turned off the disconnect handle to work on the die, imagine my surprise to find the
switch was bypassed.

Click to expand...

I am not a safety Nazi, but that's totally unacceptable for any place I would work.

When I was a kid, one of the adults at a place I frequented was missing two joints from the middle fingers of both hands, lost in one stroke of a book trimming press. In some twisted sense, he was lucky as they were cut off cleanly, rather than the crushed and mangled mess that a regular punch press might leave, requiring amputation and picking out bone splinters from the stumps and adjacent fingers.

These are not machines to screw around with, nor to put newbies right off the street on.

rabtrfld said:

Thanks. This is a stock photo of one for sale, our actual press has some guards, but only a foot pedal and not a two-hand safety control. Definitely not NIOSH.
They take temps off the street and put them on this press with no "training." How do you train someone to have their fingers lopped off, at least we show them
where we keep the gauze. The ticking noise at least warns them that the flywheel is turning.

When I opened the control box, I found there is no disconnect or fuses. I had turned off the disconnect handle to work on the die, imagine my surprise to find the
switch was bypassed.

Click to expand...

1/4 mill in fines will set that shop straight....

FWIW you can have a footpedal actuation, IF the set-up is guarded in such a way
you cannot get a limb (using the approved measuring tool) in there, at any time (with or without the stock in place)

That's why you still see those sliding finger guards used on a die-set.

Once the die setting person is finished with "set-up", the approved measuring device is brought
out, and tested all over & around the die.

Listen to Digger Doug.

On my 20 tonner I completely enclosed it in flattened expanded metal and cut an opening JUST big enough to get the stock in and the slugs out.

Ed.

Cannot explain in details, but these tickers suffer from excessive wear in one part and afaik its quite difficult to repair.
I try to avoid tickers and use presses with pneumatic clutches.

About the safety - only physical safety helps you because two handed switches will be fooled somehow - I have seen a wooden stick patched between switches, so operator pushed centre of stick and used his free hand to held parts.

Madis Reivik said:

...these tickers suffer from excessive wear in one part and afaik its quite difficult to repair...

Click to expand...

Yes, the problem is the clutch is worn out so it disengages early and doesn't reach TDC. It stops about 20 degrees before TDC. If you tighten the brake, it stops earlier and makes it worse. If you loosen the brake, it stops and slides backward and makes it worse. After it stops, you can put a crowbar to it and feel the hard stop at TDC, where it is supposed to stop.

I actually solved this problem on a Niagara, with a crank and spring at the brake end that pulls it up to TDC. The first try used Oilite bushings and only lasted a week. I knew it would fail but hoped it would last long enough to make a beefier linkage. The final linkage uses shackles with machined thimbles for the spring ends and a ball bearing at the crank. Took a week to make but not showing any wear yet. If the spring breaks it will shoot right through the stupid expanded metal guard.

I think it would be safer and more durable to use a counterweight/flyweight so I torched a big semicircle from a slab of steel and will try fitting it on the Minster.

This BS is taking me off the more important task, refitting a TOX air-over-oil press to take over the job.

That appears to be a rolling key clutch, they have been basically outlawed, THEY ARE DANGEROUS ,now if some one gets hurt your company is screwed, OSHA will be in and they're is not going to nice and polite.

My friend that rebuilds large stamping presses at a big OEM tells me that the mechanical clutch machines are safe when they are properly maintained (rebuilt occasionally) and upgraded with modern automation.

I recently added a small 250 ton 10" stroke Bliss. All 42,000 pounds of it was made in 1925 and it was still in daily use punching out sections of manufactured home frames for Zieman.

I would like to see a press operator bypass light curtains.

Garwood said:

I would like to see a press operator bypass light curtains.

Click to expand...

Alligator clip. It's not the operator, it's the setup guys.

Sounds like a knife and dog release .In my thought a counter weight wouldn't
help as the clutch engages at different points.
Taking weight off the ram and adding a counter balance, plus trouble shooting the clutch disengage.
A couple of real picturs would help