Why your machine tools should be bolted down.

People here have complained when I say top heavy machines should be at least loosely bolted down so they do not topple in an earthquake. Everyone lives in a seismic area where a earthquake may occur at any time. Saying there has not been one in 100 years just means your area is overdue for one.
Hard to believe any display in LA would not be more seismically resistant then this one. Do they tie down artwork with nylon string in your area? Not sure about "museum wax" use here in California.
Bill D.

Woman knocks over Simon Birch's art exhibit in LA | Daily Mail Online

The amazing thing about that video is that somebody actually thinks that crap is art!

I agree that I doubt she could actually damage the "artwork". At most she might pay for damages to the first piece any other damages are due to the poor installation. I doubt if the insurance company will pay one cent, they should not since all damages were caused by faulty installation.
Bill

PS: home earthquake insurance normally has a deductible of $20,000 or more just to cover windows and cosmetic crack cost.

As a California resident when I first watched this video a few days ago I thought it was some type of staged stunt.

No one in this state is stupid enough to put anything of value where it can fall over. That they put them like this and expected people to walk around and through it without thinking at least one clumsy person would bump into something is insane.

My guess is young Joe minimum wage was taking orders from Ms. Liberal Arts Degree and between the two of them couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. This was letting your cousin Darryl rig your new CNC machine stupid.

The topic was securing machine tools to the floor to prevent damage or toppling from earthquake. The art exhibit was an illustrative example.

The damage from earthquake is a result of accelerations in the underlying soil as successive waves propagate past. The accelerations may be in any plane, that is, not necessarily lateral; parallel to the ground. Objects may be damaged from accelerations disrupting structures, collision with other objects, toppling from an elevation, flooding from various sources, swallowed in sinkholes and even stuff you see in movies.

Machine tools bolted to a concrete floor are probably more secure in an earthquake than those not secured but there may be exceptions. I tend to agree with Boll D's assertion in the OP. That said, my machine tools are not bolted to the floor. We've had three significant earthquakes here in Puget Sound Country since I set up shop. Except for a few items falling from shelves there was no damage in any.

The doomsayers say the Big One is nigh and Mount Rainier will erupt and moonscape three states and British Columbia. I'm going on 76 years old. I disdain feverishly anticipating a future wide spread doom when a more specific doom is in the offing - say 30 years from now, I hope.

In January of '16, I sat through a 30+ second long 7.1 shaker, probably one of the most powerful I've ever felt- And I live in the Ring of Fire.

The worst damage to my entire shop? Several of my tool chest drawers rolled open a little.



(The clutter was already there, and had nothing to do with the earthquake, unfortunately. )

Machinery in the shop includes a somewhat top-heavy "camelback" type drill press, a rather top-heavy Nichols mill, two smaller lathes with (relatively speaking) thin and tall cabinet bases, a rolling tool cart that hardly budged, and an upright 80 gallon compressor that's not strapped to the wall.

Nothing else so much as rolled off the table. The only reason the drawers moved is because they're quality ball-bearing rollers, and I think the direction of the shaking was more or less in line with the direction the drawers roll.

No cans fell off any shelves, my 24" height gauge didn't tip over, nothing hanging on the walls on hooks came down.

I suspect that if you have a shaker powerful enough to topple any machine more stable than a cheap floor drill press, you'll have a lot more to worry about than damaged machines.

Doc.

If we bolt our machines down, do the Aussies bolt them up?

Ray Behner said:

If we bolt our machines down, do the Aussies bolt them up?

Click to expand...

Ha ha
If we're lucky

I plan to bolt down at least most of my machines, for alignment and adding mass. Glad to know im covered for earthquakes too

After moving it in my 10,000lb vmc checked wildly different level for the 1st month. I rolled it over dug up, and poured a 12" underneath. After a month cure I rolled it back unbolted. I could not quite get it level. For a couple days I screwed with it. Every time I jack one screw it changed something else. I finally added the bolts and that did it. That was 2 years ago so it's likely all changed now.

But if Doc's toolbox drawers had all opened at once, I think they would have come crashing down with a slightly different outcome. Saved by the random nature of chaos. (Plus, don't they have interlocks that prevents one from opening if another is open?)

Chip

Chip Chester said:

But if Doc's toolbox drawers had all opened at once, I think they would have come crashing down with a slightly different outcome.

Click to expand...

-Yep, several people mentioned that when I first posted the picture after the 'quake.

The Lista-style cabinet in particular has a great deal of weight in some of those drawers, on the order of 200-300 lb each, easy. There are no "interlocks", and since I got it used, of course there was no key lock either. As you say, kind of just luck nothing happened to it.

The long grey drawers to the left, however, are fitted into the workbench- they can all be slid out to full extension and nothing will tip over, as the workbench is firmly bolted to the wall.

The mismatched Craftsman cabinet on the far right, the drawer with the yellow-handled snips must have been left open from the day before, as those drawers were standard non-ball-bearing slides, and were old, sticky and worn out. Point in fact, not long after that photo was taken I replaced that entire stack with some quality bearing-slide drawer cabinets, because those drawers were getting so rough and sticky to slide.

The top-right "middle box" was ball-bearing, though, and rolled open as well- those drawers all had very lightweight stuff, however, and wouldn't have toppled even if everything opened completely.

The new drawers have the now-common built-in "detent" that kind of "clips" the drawers shut, so now it would take an even bigger shaker to stir anything loose.

Doc.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

I've been through some of the worst quakes in Cali, been through the Sylmar in '70 or '71, Whitier in the late 80s, Northridge in '94ish, etc...in the Northridge quake I lived 5 miles from the epicenter. More damage done 30 miles away where I worked, next to the Santa Monica Airport, where our building was condemned. I had earthquake insurance, didn't file a claim, but had my policy canceled...the deductible is so high, they are useless except in the case of a total or very high value loss.

I don't think you can prepare for them, there will be a certain amount of machines that are either mobile for some, being on caster, or just not easily secured. If my mill or lathe fall over it's gonna be one of the last things on my mind if I'm in the house.

Ok, so what's it like to be in a big quake? The works rocks and rolls for a minute or two, which seems like an hour when your in the middle of it. After the Northridge quake me and my wife had no dishes, and nothing from the cabinets in the kitchen. In fact, some of the cabinet doors got ripped off the cabinets...TV and furniture were toppled in the living room, you couldn't walk in the house. The earthqake hit at 3:30am or 4:30am, all power was out for 2 days. No lights, broken glass everywhere, all of your belongings seem to be waste...

But guess what? Yep, we made it through it, got our life back together, moved away from L.A. the following year and haven't looked back. Could happen where we're at now, in NorCal...earthquake faults run everywhere in CA...you can't get away from them no matter where you go.

I've watched a pool throw water in the air 35 feet high in the Sylmar quake as a kid.

Roger Waters did an alblum in '92 called "Amused to Death". If you liked Pink Floyd, you'll love this album. Anyway, one of the main songs on the album was a song named "What God Want...".

"What God wants, God gets, God help us all..."

(found the video, Beck's guitar is so tasty...)

Interpret as you may:


You can certainly do what you can to avoid your loss in case of an earthquake. But if God wants it, he will take everything along with your life.

There will always be more machines. There will always be another shop. We can always rebuild and move on with life...that is until we loose our own life...insurance is the best thing to have if it will cover you...it is for disasters after all...

That said, why is it that most all people could care less about their health? More are worried about materialistic things rather than our very own health. Why do we let companies like Monsanto ruin our environment at our own expense? Your life is the most important thing in the world, don't waste it.

How does one rearrange your machine layouts and cells every few months to match production requirements if you start bolting and grouting things to the floor?
Bob

In some of the larger companies, it's mandatory to bolt everything down.

CarbideBob said:

How does one rearrange your machine layouts and cells every few months to match production requirements if you start bolting and grouting things to the floor?
Bob

Click to expand...

Bob,

You just move all the machines and re-insert bolts into the concrete...

Seriously, when you do get an earthquake, it's gonna throw all the machine out of level anyway, even if they're bolted down. What if say, the cement cracks between the feet as an example. I'd say get the level out.

CarbideBob said:

How does one rearrange your machine layouts and cells every few months to match production requirements if you start bolting and grouting things to the floor?
Bob

Click to expand...

They don't.

That's why the forklift is still so very popular.

Note that I never said you had to tighten the bolts or grout things down. Just finger tight with a few bolts at opposite corners is plenty good enough. Part of my reasoning is if a big workpiece bends and starts whipping around you want the machine not to walk over your feet. Or what happens if a lift truck nudges the machine while running?
Bill D.

Bill D said:

Note that I never said you had to tighten the bolts or grout things down. Just finger tight with a few bolts at opposite corners is plenty good enough. Part of my reasoning is if a big workpiece bends and starts whipping around you want the machine not to walk over your feet. Or what happens if a lift truck nudges the machine while running?
Bill D.

Click to expand...

Uhm yeah.

Many machine tools require grouting, and tight bolts.

Holds them in alignment ya know.....

Please refer to the manufacturers instructions on foundation
requirements, including bolt locations, and grouting.

Enough with "harry home shop" suggestions.

steve45 said:

The amazing thing about that video is that somebody actually thinks that crap is art!

Click to expand...

Shhhhhhh your just jealous because even if all the crap you made in your life was mounted on pedestals it still would not be worth that much.

IMHO the skill in being a artist is convincing people crap is of value. Anyone can put paint on a object and make art but few can do convince others its worth eff all! Thats the skilled bit!