Need advice on repairing surface damage. Screwed over by machinist.

Demme · Jul 3, 2015

Hello everyone,

I need all the advice I can get from the experts here. I must know if there is any way to remove the surface damage on a stainless steel shaft while still keeping the measurements within tolerances.

Basically, my friend and I have been screwed over by a machinist. We sent him a drawing that says the surface should be very smooth, and as scratch-free as possible. In addition to that, I've e-mailed the machinist photos of an exact duplicate of this part and told him that this is how the surface should look like. He said no problem, told me he never sends out "crappy" and "unfinished parts", and assured me that we will get a nice looking part. Well, what we received wasn't nice looking at all. The shaft has several very ugly triangular cuts in the center, and deep scratches on other places as well.

E-mailing back and forth did nothing. I was very polite and respectful. He insists that this is a "nice looking part" and that I am nitpicking. He is also making contradictory statements which make no sense. I was hoping for a partial refund, but he's not willing to do that either. Instead he is offering to make a new shaft for $ 75 more than the old one. The old one cost $ 241.95, so the new one would be $ 316.95. I am very disappointed and angry, and really don't know what to do right now, so I need some help.

I have attached a picture to show the surface cuts I am referring to. Can those marks be removed while still keeping the measurements within tolerances, or is it absolutely necessary to make a whole new shaft? Since you can stick your fingernail inside them, I assume that they're so deep that this cannot be fixed without removing too much of the body.

My friend and I were hoping to get a project done, and this part was really important to us. I even repeatedly stressed the importance of a nice, smooth, scratch-free surface during our e-mail exchanges, but that didn't have any effect. Light scratches are completely okay. Heck, even the somewhat deeper scratches are "livable", but those triangular cuts in the center are just completely unacceptable, and ugly. This is not what we agreed on.

He says it is our fault because the drawing doesn't say it should be "polished", even though we asked him to polish it with sanding grit to get a nice surface like in the pictures, and he agreed to do it. For some reason, "very smooth surface" and "as scratch free as possible" means absolutely nothing to him. I have provided him with pasted e-mail convos we had as well as screenshots things he has said, but sadly that didn't have any effect either.

I also tried to attach the original drawing as additional proof that I am telling the truth, but the file size is too big. I'll have to upload it elsewhere and link to it. The attached picture should be enough to tell me if this can be saved or not.

We really appreciate all the help/advice we can get.

Thank you,
Demme

apt403 · Jul 3, 2015

Demme said:
Hello everyone,

I need all the advice I can get from the experts here. I must know if there is any way to remove the surface damage on a stainless steel shaft while still keeping the measurements within tolerances.

Basically, my friend and I have been screwed over by a machinist. We sent him a drawing that says the surface should be very smooth, and as scratch-free as possible. In addition to that, I've e-mailed the machinist photos of an exact duplicate of this part and told him that this is how the surface should look like. He said no problem, told me he never sends out "crappy" and "unfinished parts", and assured me that we will get a nice looking part. Well, what we received wasn't nice looking at all. The shaft has several very ugly triangular cuts in the center, and deep scratches on other places as well.

E-mailing back and forth did nothing. I was very polite and respectful. He insists that this is a "nice looking part" and that I am nitpicking. He is also making contradictory statements which make no sense. I was hoping for a partial refund, but he's not willing to do that either. Instead he is offering to make a new shaft for $ 75 more than the old one. The old one cost $ 241.95, so the new one would be $ 316.95. I am very disappointed and angry, and really don't know what to do right now, so I need some help.

I have attached a picture to show the surface cuts I am referring to. Can those marks be removed while still keeping the measurements within tolerances, or is it absolutely necessary to make a whole new shaft? Since you can stick your fingernail inside them, I assume that they're so deep that this cannot be fixed without removing too much of the body.

My friend and I were hoping to get a project done, and this part was really important to us. I even repeatedly stressed the importance of a nice, smooth, scratch-free surface during our e-mail exchanges, but that didn't have any effect. Light scratches are completely okay. Heck, even the somewhat deeper scratches are "livable", but those triangular cuts in the center are just completely unacceptable, and ugly. This is not what we agreed on.

He says it is our fault because the drawing doesn't say it should be "polished", even though we asked him to polish it with sanding grit to get a nice surface like in the pictures, and he agreed to do it. For some reason, "very smooth surface" and "as scratch free as possible" means absolutely nothing to him. I have provided him with pasted e-mail convos we had as well as screenshots things he has said, but sadly that didn't have any effect either.

I also tried to attach the original drawing as additional proof that I am telling the truth, but the file size is too big. I'll have to upload it elsewhere and link to it. The attached picture should be enough to tell me if this can be saved or not.

We really appreciate all the help/advice we can get.

Thank you,
Demme

Sorry for your troubles.

My first thought would be to TIG or spray weld the area with the gouges, to build the material back up, then turn that section back down to size. If there are any other surface imperfections that you'd rather not deal with, you could have that entire length spray welded. Specify a surface RMS/Ra on the drawing when you send it to be machined:

Surface Finish Charts : L.J. Star Incorporated

Pretty hard to squabble about what's a "nice finish" when there's a micron surface finish callout on the drawing.

Joec@westminster · Jul 3, 2015

Depending on the use the part is intended for, you could grind it under size and have it built back up with chrome then reground to size. .002-.003 per side is very doable and on the plus side it will give you a harder surface than the material the part is made of, provided that is desirable of course. If not nickle is an option but will give a gold-ish color which can be fixed by chrome plating the whole part when done for a uniform color all over.

Milland · Jul 3, 2015

Take a picture of the entire part and post it here. I'm not sure it's practical for such a (relatively) low cost part to be welded/plated and recut, it may make more sense to remake it if the gouges ruin the part. Perhaps someone here can do it, we tend to be self-policing, so when you get a quote and quality statement it's rare that it goes wrong.

If the person you're dealing with is being a jerk (and with only your side of the story, I'm a little hesitant to say so, but I sure regard that damage as unacceptable), then you may have to call it a painful lesson and move on. Getting recommendations from others who've used a shop can be a big help as far as making sure you don't get screwed (or gouged!).

David J. · Jul 3, 2015

My guess is that by the time you paid somebody to "repair" it, you could
have just paid another shop to make a new one.
If it was strictly a issue of how it looked in that area, with no real
size concern, somebody could turn a slight taper in that area and
hide it to the naked eyeball test. ( well, most eyeballs anyway )
David

ManualEd · Jul 3, 2015

This might be completely off base, but depending on what its used for, would you be able to under cut the damaged part, and just have a huge lead in?

\_________________________________/

Like so, but shallower angle on the lead in?

gbent · Jul 3, 2015

Your shaft has a bruise. What will happen if you use it as is? If that is clearance or a bearing seat it won't matter. If it is a sliding or rotating seal there may be an epoxy product that can be used for a repair.

tdmidget · Jul 3, 2015

What does this feature of the part do? Does something slide on it? Does a bearing go there? If so, what kind? This is more than cosmetic but if function is unaffected you may well be better off using it and knowing never to use this guy again. Who furnished the material? Any vhance this damage was there before his work?

Demme · Jul 3, 2015

I attached a picture of the part. Not the part he made, but an exact duplicate. It is 152 mm long and has a taper. I showed him this picture as well as three other pictures, to tell him what surface we want. I also specified in the drawing that the surface must be as scratch free as possible, although a perfect mirror finish was not needed. I also specified twice during our e-mail exchanges to pay attention to the surface and he said no problem.

We also ordered another small part together with the shaft, which he also pretty much screwed up, but it isn't that expensive so it's not a problem.

I am trying to attach the drawing of the shaft but the PDF file is too big. I will have to upload it somewhere now and put up a link.

Demme · Jul 3, 2015

Ok, I've attached a drawing inside the ZIP file. That's the only way how I was able to upload it onto the forum.

CalG · Jul 3, 2015

What do we think? The part was chucked in a four jaw and it was over clamped or came loose?

Soft jaws would havbe been the answer.

The person who did the work is being a dick, but the only thing to do is not give him any more business and tell him why! Tell him you are telling others the same.

Demme · Jul 3, 2015

Milland said:
Take a picture of the entire part and post it here. I'm not sure it's practical for such a (relatively) low cost part to be welded/plated and recut, it may make more sense to remake it if the gouges ruin the part. Perhaps someone here can do it, we tend to be self-policing, so when you get a quote and quality statement it's rare that it goes wrong.

If the person you're dealing with is being a jerk (and with only your side of the story, I'm a little hesitant to say so, but I sure regard that damage as unacceptable), then you may have to call it a painful lesson and move on. Getting recommendations from others who've used a shop can be a big help as far as making sure you don't get screwed (or gouged!).

Thank you for the kind words. The machinist is from this forum. He doesn't post much. I suppose he just uses the forum looking for jobs. I will never work with this person again, and neither will my friend.

I cannot post his username unless a moderator tells me that I can do that. I don't want to break any forum rules.

Demme · Jul 3, 2015

CalG said:
What do we think? The part was chucked in a four jaw and it was over clamped or came loose?

Soft jaws would havbe been the answer.

The person who did the work is being a dick, but the only thing to do is not give him any more business and tell him why! Tell him you are telling others the same.

I would gladly post his username, but I am waiting permission from one of the moderators whom I contacted via private message.

In the meantime, please read this exchange between me and him.

My e-mail to him from May 8, 2015:

Hey (name removed),

I'm sending you real photos of the exact shaft you are going to make. Here you can clearly see the right and left side, and you can also see the smoothness and surface we are aiming for.

Keep in mind that this piece wasn't polished on a buffer, it was just done with sandpaper on the CNC lathe, and the surface turned out really awesome.

It would be nice if you could confirm receipt of this e-mail when you have time.

Thank you and have a good weekend.

Take care,
Demme

His response from May 12th, 2015:

HI Demme,

I just got around to checking e-mails, weekends normally are off days, just now am I getting to e-mails, busy day.

We don't send out crappy unfinished parts, any time you take a abrasive material to a parts surface is considered polishing,

it doesn't matter if it's in the machine or out of the machine. There is no need to worry you will get a nice looking part.

Regards,
(name removed)

I think this speaks for itself. My e-mail had four close-up photographs of the shaft. Plus I had already mentioned in an e-mail from April 29th (!) how the surface should be. His response above to my e-mail clearly shows...

(a) that he's seen all the photos and understood what surface we want,
(b) that he understood that polishing is necessary for that surface,
(c) that he assured that we will get a nice looking part.

Unfortunately, we did not get a nice looking part. This is reality. It is not a lie. Not even a bit. The triangular cuts in the center are not compatible with the words "smooth surface" or "nice looking part". Heck, even the original drawing says "as scratch-free as possible"!

And BTW, there are also some deep scratches on the shaft aside from these triangular marks. He just paid no attention to the surface whatsoever.

Now if I understood the posts correctly here, it isn't worth trying to repair this piece. Instead I should find another person to do a new one. Right?

Ox · Jul 3, 2015

Demme has asked permission offline to mention the name of the individual who produced this shaft. While I am uncomfortable with this, it is a fair part of the purchasing agreement - provided an amicable outcome has not been resolved. He assured me that he had tried to get some sort of agreeable outcome (on his end) for this before coming here and slandering.

I just want to keep in mind that most of us are not perfect (at least I'm not) and we all miss the mark somewhere along the line, but to not refund the $ or remake the part does not seem to be acceptable here.

I asked the site admin if it was Kosher to post the name, and I was given an "OK - but we will monitor the thread closely" reply.

Without possible negative recourse, our "RFQ" section could be a free-for-all, so this is the unfortunate other side that must be dealt with. Also - keep in mind that this is what can happen if you pre-pay for a part that you have yet to see. So those that fuss about deadbeat payers and that you wouldn't do someones work w/o payment up front - you can see the other possibility from the other side here.

----------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Milland · Jul 3, 2015

Demme said:
Now if I understood the posts correctly here, it isn't worth trying to repair this piece. Instead I should find another person to do a new one. Right?

I apologize that I didn't notice you're posting from Germany when I saw your first post. And it's disappointing to hear that it was a forum member who messed up the part. I appreciate your restraint regarding name postings, but it seems appropriate to do so if you get permission. If you're open to dealing with another member, definitely post a request in the right forum, or maybe someone here will send you a contact pm.

The part is fortunately small enough that material costs are minimal, and for someone with the right lathe setup it should be a relatively easy part to make.

Demme · Jul 3, 2015

He gave me several excuses which didn't make sense. The first being, how the word "polished" wasn't included in the drawing itself. He ignores the fact that the drawing says very smooth, and as scratch-free as possible. He ignores the fact that our e-mail conversations clearly show that he understood the surface that was necessary. I took close up photographs of an exact shaft duplicate out in daylight, and e-mailed him the pictures. I pasted the convo above where he says that he never sends out unfinished parts anyway, and that there is no reason to worry.

What offended me among other things is the final excuse he gave. He told a complete untruth, which is that I insisted how there absolutely must be no chamfer around the hole, and that these triangular marks appeared after the chamfer removal process.

This is what I said about the chamfer:

"Are you planning to make the hole on the right side chamfered? You see, I have had machinists make such holes both with and without a chamfer. One guy who made it without a chamfer screwed it up a bit, so it looked almost elliptical. The others with a small chamfer turned out perfect. Without a chamfer is preferred, but if this is difficult or for some reason "risky" and increases the chance for the hole to look messed up, then you should definitely do a chamfer. I'm not a machinist, so I trust whatever you say about this. Simply put, if it's easier and/or safer to do a chamfer, then you should definitely do so, but please try to make the chamfer as small as possible."

In a later e-mail I repeated:

"I do not want to sound like a broken record, but again, if it's easier / less complicated / less risky to make the hole with a chamfer, then that's fine, as long as the chamfer is very small. Honestly, I leave that up to you. It just needs to look like a hole, not like an ellipse, and it should be even and smooth.

You're the expert so I leave that particular decision up to you."

This proves that I did not insist that the hole cannot have a chamfer.

But even if the marks came from the chamfer removal process... what would've been the problem to remove them afterwards through polishing?

This is the last e-mail I received from him:

Demme,

The specs never said polished, it's not my fault, it said no polishing needed just as scratch free as possible, and we did the polishing for FREE. Those marks were there because you made a big deal about the German's center drill chamfer on the hole, which we went to the effort to set up and remove for FREE, just to be nice. If the surface was that critical then you should have spec'd it.

To make a new one it's going to be $75.00 more then the original price + $10.00 USPS shipping/tracking/insurance. This is due to having to setup a machine to remove the center drill counter sink and for polishing.

Regards,
(name removed)

The e-mail is simply crazy because the drawing does not say "no polishing needed", it says "NO MIRROR-FINISH WANTED". Furthermore, "very smooth" and "as scratch free as possible" is not compatible with several deep triangular marks in the center so deep you can stick your fingernails inside them.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Jul 3, 2015

Looks like a chuck mark to me. That's pretty careless work.

Regards Tyrone.

Demme · Jul 3, 2015

Here is another part he didn't do very well, to say the least. We requested a smooth surface and rounded corners, according to specs. The corners are very sharp, and the surface quite horrible with a line. Attached is my drawing as well as his work.

sable · Jul 3, 2015

I thought the marks looked like they were done by a grinding wheel ,whatever did the deed I have had similar things happen ,usually the part goes in the bin at the very least I would ask for a concession.

billzweig · Jul 3, 2015

Obviously careless work, but should not be too difficult to have it made again by a better machinist. The part does not look too complicated.

Need advice on repairing surface damage. Screwed over by machinist.

Aluminum

Attachments

Cast Iron

Aluminum

Diamond

Cast Iron

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Aluminum

Attachments

Aluminum

Attachments

Diamond

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Attachments

Titanium

Stainless

Similar threads