Need a better vice for a large pillar drill. Suggestions please.

So I've been using the same import 6" jaw cross vice as the standard fit work holding device on various pillar drills for maybe 25 - 30 years. Being an early one it's a bit better built than the current cheapies. Probably more aimed at the low end pro user than current home shop target ones. Sticker price then was maybe half as much again as sticker / E-Bay prices now. Objectively less than ideal but with a set of prismatic jaws, one horizontal Vee & 3 vertical ones, it gets far enough up the "It'll do I s'pose" scale that I've lived with it.

For the last few years its sat on Fredr'k Pollard 15 AY drill with a gear driven, 9 speed, 3 MT spindle. The vice can definitely struggle with larger MT3 drills up t'spout. I don't think it will break but it can wobble in moderately alarming manner. One things for sure the 15 AY won't stall out if something hangs up! So as a suitable, more robust X-Y table has resurfaced after long term (resting!) loan. Table has space for something around 8 x 12 overall. I figure its time to fit something a bit more appropriate on it and accept a re-homing offer on the old one.

Trouble is I've not got a clue as to what would be an appropriate vice. The only other drill vice I've used is a Nippy. Good but designed small. I guess 6" wide jaws and a holding capacity in 6" to 10" range would work. Most of what comes up when looking for drill vices are of the scary flimsy / you cannot be serious variety with long slender clamp screws and light almost un-supported jaws. Found a few heavy duty ones which seem to be milling vice style with open centres and shorter moving jaw blocks. Usually no or not heard of name and moderately expensive for what they are. Appears to be little advantage over getting a used decent brand milling vice off E-Bay for half the price and living with the battle scars. Long moving jaw block does mean that 6" x 6" is about the limit size wise for milling vice.

Rack style vices are attractive as having a short stiff screw and an compact moving jaw set-up giving larger length capacity relative to base size. Lots less winding when going from short job to long one too which is nice. Short wide ones are like hens teeth tho'. Usually only 3" or 4" wide jaws in the length I can accommodate.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and build something. I found a design from Popular Mechanics for a planer vice that could be a basis http://www.galleyrack.com/images/ar...922-03-p462-pdf505-adjustable-planer-vise.pdf . Similar to rack style but with a rectangular key instead of the rack and a fully floating L shaped moving jaw held down by an opposite hand L block carrying the pusher screw. Not sure about the fully floating jaw. Or I could really rev-up the creativity neutrons and do something "inspired by Chick". Fundamentally the Chick is a rack style after all and built-up screw'n glue construction to an accuracy sufficient for a drill vice looks do-able. I'm into making jaws anyway whatever I get.

Or does the team think its all going to be too much trouble for insufficient real gain unless I splash out on one of the CNC vices, which isn't gonna happen.

Thanks.

Clive

The best sort of vice for a drill is a Taylor rack vice ,they come up reasonably often on fleabay but you might have to put up with a few extra holes.

At another place I had a MT4 Cincinnati used for drilling plate. Ended up making a set of step bars out of some 2" sq scrap floating around that seemed to work quite well along with some RiteHite clamps. For tubing the step could have stood to be deeper, but for plate work they did a fine job.

Don't mess about get a rack vice, found a few tor you.

Rack vice 4" Rack Vice / Machine Vice 9" Capacity, Mill, Milling, Drill | eBay

& but £££ RACK TYPE MACHINE VICE, 12" X 5" EXCELLENT FOR DRILLING MACHINE ETC. PS195 + VAT | eBay

& 6" Rack Vice / Machine Vice - 13.5" max opening | eBay

Sabel, Limy

Thanks for the re-assurance that a Taylor rack type vice will do the deed. It was seeing the ones that Limy found on E-Bay that got me thinking seriously about summatt better than what I have. Having only ever seen them with 3" width jaws I wondered if there were stability issues with wider jaws due to the push screw not being positively affixed to the moving jaw. Having a big job squirt out the side due to the jaws cocking relative to each other could ruin my whole day!

I like the 6" one but at nearly 2 ft long it may not be possible to get it on the X-Y table. Top is 12" x 9", travels a generous 5" & 4". But slides are long enough to extend an inch or two without issues. Better get creative. Really don't want to go to narrower jaws.

Picture of table and drill so folk know what we are talking about. Don't you hate it when loan stuff comes back rusty and crapped up.



Clive

I like the Float Lock vise. I have a copy of one made by an old toolmaker. It is mounted semi permanently on my drill press.

float lock vise - Google Search

Illinoyance

Float Lock is an interesting device. Accepting that I have never seen one and therefore almost completely ignorant as to their practical use it seems to me that they are intended for holes up to 1/2" - 3/4" so MT 3 drills would ask rather a lot of the restraining capabilities. I'd probably miss the co-ordiante drilling capabilities of the X-Y cross vice style too as its what I'm used to so thats the way I do things.

That said I can see obvious advantages in some situations so another one for the projects list.

Thanks

Clive

I originally had the vise on an old camelback drill with a 4MT.

the best vice will always meet a true virtue .

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues." - Abraham Lincoln

what about a half-nut vise....

Yost Vises - Yost Heavy Duty Drill Press Vise Quick Release - View in Your Room! | Houzz

tnmgcarbide

That Yost vice is interesting but, not to my mind, in a good way. Maybe being blatantly unfair but the jaws don't look very strong and the half nut idea doesn't promote that nice warm feeling that its gonna grip like a pitbull with a mad on should things start shaking around.

Illinoyance

I'm impressed that the Float Lock vice copes fine with an MT 4. Definitely need to look into it although I don't think its the best fit for what I do.

Clive

My favorite drill press vise is the Cardinal Speed Vise. It is the half-nut design similar to the one mentioned above but much better . I have two, one each 3" and 6" and wouldn't trade them for anything else. These things grip like crazy and are accurate.

Cardinal Speed Vise Quick Action Design - Penn Tool Co., Inc

Cranium,

Would you tell us about the thread type on the Cardinal vise? Is it a standard ACME thread? Or is it a thread with a vertical side? I'm trying to understand how just the half nut can do the job.

Is the pivot point of the screw on the jaw below or above the height at which the screw rests in the half nut? Is it really horizontal when in compression?

Anyone who has one, could you take a close up picture of the screw and the half nut

Thanks

Jacques



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Threads are undercut so the more you tighten it the more it pulls down into the half nut. I got this picture off fleabay:

Maybe if X-Y coordinate drilling is essential to everything done on your DP, you should consider a small table (32" length table) BP/Adcock Shipley size turret mill? Heck of a lot more convenient and accurate platform. In the US those shorty table machines are scarce but tend to go for not much money. I have an R8 - MT3 socket, though probably only used it once or twice. Most of my larger drills up to 2" are stubbys with 3/4" straight shank for use in a collet.

Back to your current problem:
The 2nd vise in Limy's post above - the shiny green one with the high price - has been broken and welded near the tail. Look at the porous weld and the angle grinder signature under the green paint on the rh corner. Probably perfectly usable and no major defect, but a bit rich for the condition. Good deal if the asking was under maybe $100US.

smt

stephen

Proper X-Y co-ordinate jobs go on the Bridgeport.

Far as the drill is concerned its more a case of me being used to having the vice and X-Y screw feed adjustment so I automatically work to exploit that unless the job really doesn't suit and the vice has to come off. After so many years work habits are pretty well ingrained and, at 64 come July, this particular old dawg needs to ration the number of new tricks to be picked up! Really good when playing with thin sheet stuff. Sacrificial MDF or chipboard table with a batten underneath to grab in the vice. Power drive a suitable arrangement of screws around the victim so it stays put in approximately the right place then adjust as required. Multiple positions if need be.

Unfortunately after a careful measure up its clear that a commercial 6" wide jaw vice of either Taylor or other style isn't going to work out as well as I'd hoped due to potential arguments with the Bridgeport table. As is the vice screw can be an occasional pain but it's easily wound out of the way and is skinny enough to work around. Vice body is bit more serious and would need to be removed on occasion. Nowhere useful to move the machines to for clearance either, especially as both Bridgeport and drill are carefully sited so I can poke long jobs out the side door over the veggie plot. Maybe after a small adjustment of angle and position. Theoretically I can get to the middle of 22 ft, longest I've had is 15 ft but I'm sure something longer will turn up one day. Might have to wait util the growing season is over tho' if crop rotation puts the climbing beans and pea nets in the way!

As I really don't want to go to a narrower vice it looks as if DIY "Inspired by Chick" is the only way to get what I really want. Now that sounds a bit Essex.

Clive

If you are bent on keeping that x y table on yr Pollard(brother,sister of mine)then the Taylor rack vices won't really suit. Something that might is the 4"Record swivel jaw vice. I'm not sure if they are made any more. There is a good slot in the middle so no excuses for fouling with a drill. Opens about 3",better imo than a Nippy.

Another thing worth considering is cutting the ''wings'' off the sides of a Taylor and shortening it if need be, .and fix it to your machine table / whatever with 4 cap heads down through the slide faces.

Limy

6" Taylors in decent condition appear to be so rare that its almost sacrilege to cut one down for that job!

Bottom line is that I didn't really think things through as to clearances between a larger vice and Bridgeport table when wound well to the right. Big difference between just having the screw overhanging when the vice jaws are well open and having serious parts of the vice sticking out. Plan A being basically to pull the vice off when I ran out of room. Detail figuring out before dropping over £100 on one of those bigger Taylors off E-Bay proved that such a vice would be on and off with monotonous regularity, sometimes mid job.

A Chick style device with the external pull bar down each side, operated by a short screw at the fixed jaw end, comes in rather shorter than a Taylor for similar capacity. I figure I can produce one much stronger than the existing vice with something over 8" opening with 6" wide jaws compact enough to leave on the drill all the time. Fair bit of work but an interesting project. Hopefully be reporting back next year (ish).

Ted

Record are great bench vices but I've always felt the drill vices to be more woodworker than metal worker equipment. I did buy one of the swivel jaw variety. Got used twice. Second time it spat the job out breaking a drill in the process so it got shoved under the bench until I sold that bench pillar drill, probably a Superior, a couple of years later and threw it in to make up the deal. Guy who got it is still speaking to me and very happy with both vice and drill after 30 odd years so maybe I was unfair.

Anyway thanks for the interest and advice. And yes I'm still seriously peeved that there is no way to make that big 6" jaw Taylor work!

Clive