Need Help With A Sheldon Lathe
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 73
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Question Need Help With A Sheldon Lathe

    Just Received A Sheldon Lathe {EM-46-P] Know Very Little About A Lathe. Took Machine Shop In H. School, A Trade School Here In St. Louis Back In The Early 60s. Lathe Looks OK, Doesn't Mean It Is. Cleaned It Up. Getting Ready To Level It. There Are At Least A Dozen Oil Cups And Caps,{I Guess That is What You Call Those Oil Holes With A Little Spring Loaded Bearing} What Type & Weight Oil Do I Use. Is There Supposed To Felt In Them?? There Isn't. What Are The Wipers On The Ways Made Of? Almost looks Like Leather But That Don't Seem Right To Me. I have A Million Question And Will Need Some Tooling. Not Even Shure Where To Start. It Came With A Phase Converter And Seems To Run OK. I Checked The Voltage Of The Three Phase It Is Well Within The 12% Div. Range, I Believe That Is What The Instructions Says. The Amperage Is Different By Far, But The Instruction Sheet Did Not Mention That At All. What Should The Amp Range Be??. Ran It For About 2.5 Hours Toying With Light Thread Cutting, While I Wait To Barrow A Proper Level. Nothing Heated Up. Like I Said I Am New At This And Any Help Will Be Appreciated. Thanks , Bill

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    27,210
    Post Thanks / Like

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,377
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5843
    Likes (Received)
    4578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Terry View Post
    Just Received A Sheldon Lathe {EM-46-P] Know Very Little About A Lathe. Took Machine Shop In H. School, A Trade School Here In St. Louis Back In The Early 60s. Lathe Looks OK, Doesn't Mean It Is. Cleaned It Up. Getting Ready To Level It. There Are At Least A Dozen Oil Cups And Caps,{I Guess That is What You Call Those Oil Holes With A Little Spring Loaded Bearing} What Type & Weight Oil Do I Use. Is There Supposed To Felt In Them?? There Isn't. What Are The Wipers On The Ways Made Of? Almost looks Like Leather But That Don't Seem Right To Me. I have A Million Question And Will Need Some Tooling. Not Even Shure Where To Start. It Came With A Phase Converter And Seems To Run OK. I Checked The Voltage Of The Three Phase It Is Well Within The 12% Div. Range, I Believe That Is What The Instructions Says. The Amperage Is Different By Far, But The Instruction Sheet Did Not Mention That At All. What Should The Amp Range Be??. Ran It For About 2.5 Hours Toying With Light Thread Cutting, While I Wait To Barrow A Proper Level. Nothing Heated Up. Like I Said I Am New At This And Any Help Will Be Appreciated. Thanks , Bill
    Not so new as to be klewless. Good lathes. You'll do fine.

    Those are "ball oilers" and best serviced with a hand lever-squeeze pump-oiler, tip fitted with a resilient ring as can seal and pressurize them to push the ball open.

    AFTER.. one has SCRUPULOUSLY cleaned away any shite as the lube will carry in.

    Which is borderline impossible, just as it is with Zerks used for oil (or grease..) so.. perhaps a reason Lunkenheimers and Gits oilers are still sold, brand-new? OTOH, ball oilers, "hull down" as they are, stay TF out of the way, and hardly ever get damaged, so...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    I have a similar lathe, an EM-70. They vary significantly depending on when they were built. If you can post a picture, and if it's the style mine is, I can probably be at least a little help to you. I have a manual for mine and if yours is the same I can get that to you if you don't have one already.

    What type of chuck mount do you have? (threaded or D1-4)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Eureka, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,637
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    346
    Likes (Received)
    253

    Default

    Nice little lathe, I have a similar one with a longer bed (EXL-56B).

    Get some Vactra for the ways (the four ball oilers on the carriage) and the gear train (note comment below). You can use spindle oil for everything else. Both are readily available online.

    Don't forget to remove the little set screws on the cone, just behind the bull gear, and the one on the back gear. Fill with spindle oil and replace the screws.

    You can purchase felt from a fabric store, just cut it to required dimensions and stuff into the oil passages that need them after removing any residue. See the note below about replacing drive belts. If you need to do this, it's an ideal time to thoroughly clean the spindle oil passages !

    By the way, a handy tool that I made from a piece of welding rod is something that looks like a crotchet hook (ask your wife about this). Make a small hook on one end and hammer it flat. Use it to reach in and open the little oiler covers on the tumbler gears that are otherwise near inaccessible.

    Heck, now that I think of it, just buy a small crochet hook from the fabric store when you buy the felt.

    Sheldons are known for noisy gear trains, especially in back gear. I found that mine can be quieted considerably by first wiping off the existing lube before spraying with motorcycle chain lube. Allow the spray to "rest" for a while before operating the lathe.

    The brand that I use is "Motul" just because I happened to have it left over from my dirt biking days. Similar product with different names are likely to work just as well but I haven't tried them.

    For a long time, under the presumption that my machine was not run in reverse very much, I've considered reversing all of the gears in the train. This would allow the relatively unworn surfaces of the gears to then bear most of the load. Should quieten things down a bit .... just FWIW.

    Before you do much of anything to the machine, check the condition of the pair of cone drive belts. It's not a huge deal to replace them but the spindle does have to come out. Get a marched pair of belts if such a thing still exists.

    The leadscrew/nut on my cross-slide was seriously worn - almost a half-turn of backlash. I made a temporary fix by slotting the cast iron nut, heating it and squeezing it to reduce the threaded diameter slightly. It helped quite a bit but then I pushed my luck way too far. Trying the same process (and I should have known better) I heated the part again and tried to squeeze it just a tad tighter. Snap.

    The thought of making a new nut, single-pointing a 5/8-8 INTERNAL left hand thread, didn't seem attractive to me although I have another lathe on which to make the part. On a hunch I did a search and found a guy who makes a few replacement parts for Sheldon lathes INCLUDING the cross-slide leadscrew and nut. Hallelluya or however it's spelled. (I think that he is on eBay if you need his help. A search for "Sheldon parts" or something similar should ferret him out.)

    The nut he provided was unfinished which was great since it could be tailored to my machine. I mention all of this because if your machine is as ancient as mine (1945) the cross slide will likely be very worn. That applies to the gibs as well, naturally.

    I removed the adjustable gib and cleaned it thoroughly after which I epoxied (J-B Weld) a .010 brass spacer cut to fit the gib. Note that the spacer is epoxied to the BACK side of the gib NOT the side that contacts the cross slide. .010 was perfect for my machine, the adjuster screw was turned in about 1/2 turn before snugging up the cross slide. It was bottomed out before this modification.

    I don't know anything about the power consumption/current on your machine because I kept the original single phase 120 volt drive system - I love that design, it's relatively complex but extremely effective.

    BTW, the max spindle speed on my machine is around 1300 RPM so I rarely use carbide tooling. I have a few holders/inserts and some various brazed carbide cutters for turning hard materials but 90% of the time HSS is more appropriate. Since you are using a variable phase drive system, you may not have the speed limitation. Might be a problem if the spindle bearings are not rated for higher RPM.

    Which reminds me that the spindle bearings in my machine were REALLY loose when I bought it. There are several methods of spindle adjustment that I've read, some of which sound almost like voodoo. I chose a simple technique that - if not the best - at least produced repeatable, measurable results.

    I bought a cheap HF infra-red thermometer to measure bearing cap temperature, ran the lathe at highest speed for thirty minutes and measured the temperature. I had read (probably on John Knox's Yahoo Sheldon forum)that if one could hold ones hand on the bearing cap without pain, the bearings were not overly pre-loaded.

    From past experience, my threshold of pain for warm objects is 60 degrees C so I had a rough yardstick. I kept tightening the pre-load nut until I measure a temperature rise of 20 degrees above room temperature. I felt comfortable with this since it was far below the discomfort level.

    That was around five years ago and there's been no problem with the machine since. Oh yeah, this machine has a tapered roller bearing spindle. Sheldon made three different spindle configurations as I recall, sleeve and duplex ball bearing in addition to the tapered roller bearing.

    Sheldon introduced a book similar to the well-known South Bend "How To Run A Lathe". I happen to have an extra copy and if you PM me your address, I'll mail it to you.

    P.S. I kept writing "cone drive" but that's not correct, under cabinet drives don't have spindle cone drives, speeds are changed by shifting belts within the cabinet. "Cone" is just habit, I guess, sorry for the misunderstanding.

    P.P.S. much editing required

  6. Likes Monarchist liked this post
  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    6,123
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1456
    Likes (Received)
    2431

    Default

    Your post implies that you are in St. Louis. My shop is in Webster Groves. I buy the various oils in 5 gallon buckets so I can give you a quart or so of each. I have never run a lathe like yours but a couple of very good machinists I have known really liked them. I have a Sheldon, a larger R15, which I consider an excellent lathe. Call me at 314-963-9997.

    Bill

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Like I Said I Don't Know A Lot About Lathes. The Chuck Looks To Be Held On A Plate With 6 Or Eight Set Screws. I Will Try To Post Pics Later. I Do Have The Serial No. {EM24332} If That Helps. I Do Not Have A Manual And Would Appreciate Anything You have. I Did Order A Book On Line,{I Believe A Paperback} But it Hasn't Got Here Yet. If It's Not What I Need I'll Get Back To You. Thanks. I Am Just Starting And You Will Hear From Me Often, Bill

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Thanks For The Info. I'll Look For The "Vectra" And Spindle Oil On Line But I Read That 10W Non Detergent Motor Oil Should Me Used. Those Little Oiler Covers Are A Bear. I Can not Find Any Info On The Power Consumption Of The Phase Converter But I Won't Quit Looking. I Also Have A Infra Red Thermostat But I Forgot All About it. Thanks You Jogged My Mind. I Been Using The Hand Method I Learned 45 Years Ago In The Navy. I ordered Sheldon How To Run A Lathe Book And Several Other Books That I hope Will Cover This Lathe. Cone Drive, Gibe ,Spindle, Ways And All The Terminology Is New To Me But I Am Learning. Thanks Again And You Will Hear Fro Me Again. Bill

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Terry View Post
    . . .The Chuck Looks To Be Held On A Plate With 6 Or Eight Set Screws. . .
    Those screws fasten the chuck to the backplate. At this point in your experience I'd not recommend removal of those screws. Thebackplate/chuck assembly is mounted to the lathe spindle either by screwing on like a nut, or with what is called a camlock mount, or 'D-series' mount. There will be a flange right behind the chuck backplate. If the flange has three square sockets around the circumference you have the D1-4 mount. If the flange is smooth, or has one or two ordinary round holes around it, you have probably got a threaded spindle. There are other types of chuck mounts but I don't think they were used by Sheldon much, if at all.

    Don't get too caught up in things like the 'correct' oils, etc. A whole lot of lubricants will work well on your type lathe and spending a bunch of money and time finding just the right one is not necessary. For now, just make sure to keep things oiled with something! Way oil is essential at some point, preferably before you do a lot of heavy or dirty (cast iron, rusty etc) cutting. Everybody is sold on Vactra No. 2, but there may be better options for V-ways that will stick around longer (the oil I use is technically ISO68 but it has much better adhesion than Vactra No. 2)

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Angier, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,267
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    706
    Likes (Received)
    730

    Default

    Let me ask a favor - please don't Capitalize Every Word Of Each Sentence - it makes it very hard for these old eyes to read!

  12. Likes tdmidget, TRussell liked this post
  13. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Eureka, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,637
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    346
    Likes (Received)
    253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Terry View Post
    .... I Been Using The Hand Method I Learned 45 Years Ago In The Navy...
    Bill, I wonder if that method is the one attributed to the Emco-Maier factory, like "give the chuck a sharp pull and see if it stops rotating at 1-1/2 turns". Or something like that. That's the one that I thought was voodoo since there are so many variables, LOL.

    Glad you ordered that Sheldon book. Most of the stuff in it will probably jog your memory but there is a chapter that I think will be of use. Sheldon devoted a LOT more information regarding grinding HSS tools than did South Bend.

    Note that most of the info is oriented toward the lantern type of tool holder. But there's nothing wrong with that; many situations beg for the use of a lantern plus Armstrong/Williams toolholders.

    Ignoring the type of toolholder, the important information is the approximate angles shown for various cutters. This is knowledge that a novice might fumble around and gain after much trial/error so it's better to start with tried and proven info. The top contour, looking down at the cutter, is not important in many cases - the critical angles are rake, relief and clearance angles. All of this is described in the little book you're waiting for.

    Oh yeah, I'm NOT suggesting that you're a novice, sounds to me that you already know what is critical and what isn't and obviously aren't the type of guy that dives right into a project without first obtaining information/guidance! And I apologize if this information is already known, I'm just rambling.

    I forgot to mention yesterday that I also have the Army maintenance manual for the Sheldon ten inch (some call these eleven inch lathes) series. It is helpful should you need to do any major disassembly due to the exploded, detailed drawings. If interested, let me know and I'll scan the drawings. (The spindle configuration in the manual is the babbitt sleeve type, not ball or roller bearing.

    P.S. If you order oils, you may as well add a quart of cutting oil to the order. Pipe threading oil is useful for many applications and it's commonly available at hardware stores, although usually costlier.

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    I can find only one set screw on the [cone] and the one on the back gear is a ball oiler. You are correct, this lathe does not have a cone, so what do I call it? I have a phase converter. I don't believe it is variable at all. I received an Allen Bradley Frequency Drive With it but it is not hooked up and I don't believe I will use it. Changing speed on this lathe is simple enough. Thanks Again and I will post pics tomorrow if I can get my BRIDE to help. I an not all that computer smart. I sure appreciate all the help.

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    I hope the book will explain the chuck set up. This lathe does have a reverse switch and runs fine but a little noisy in reverse so I wouldn't think the chuck is screwed on but I am new at this so I won't screw with it till I know something. If I can get a precision level I will set the base and level it this weekend. Any Tips on That. It will be in a garage with a good solid concrete floor. thanks , I do appreciate the help. Bill

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    I'll try to forgo the caps. The job I retired from after 18 years, included writing work orders and for whatever reason that's how they wanted them done.. Go figure.. Thanks again I Do need the help. Bill.

  17. Likes awake liked this post
  18. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    All Sheldon (and nearly all other lathes) are reversible and that has nothing to do with whether or not you have a threaded mount. Using collets, for instance, it matters not at all.

    As for tips on the leveling, if your lathe has ground ways (I suspect it does) you can set the level across the top of the Vs. This is considered bad practice on some makes, but Sheldon specifically states that such a position is suitable for precision leveling. (Quote from a Sheldon manual specific to the M series: "The tops of the V-ways are precision ground to facilitate leveling, and additional parallel blocks are not required")

    The manual I have, in pdf format, is a parts diagram and service manual for S and M series pedestal mount lathes. It shows both threaded and camlock spindles, spindle belt replacement procedures and all types of drives. It also includes on page 9 a very detailed description of the leveling procedure. If you would like a copy just PM me your personal email address and I will send it to you.

  19. Likes Monarchist liked this post
  20. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    Another thing about leveling. While the tops of the Vs are suitable for reference they are also the most easily dinged and damaged. Before any attempt at leveling you absolutely must clean and inspect these surfaces and stone off any protruding material or make sure the areas you place the level are perfect.

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Eureka, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,637
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    346
    Likes (Received)
    253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Terry View Post
    ...I can find only one set screw on the [cone] and the one on the back gear is a ball oiler....Changing speed on this lathe is simple enough...
    Bill, my bad, you're right about the back gear ball oiler, sorry, buddy.

    If you can get that variable speed converter working properly, it adds a LOT of capability to the machine ! Changing belts on a small Sheldon is not a big deal but being able to dial in a more optimum speed is really nice. There's a pretty big RPM gap between some of those belt changes.

    (BTW you won't go wrong following any of Gordon's advice, he's been there and done that !)

  22. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    Good morning,
    You should have the manual any second. I should have been clearer about 'PM me your email' too. I meant 'private message' via this board. I suggest you delete your post above via the edit button, otherwise the bots that crawl the net will pick it up and you'll get a big increase in spam.
    Gordon

  23. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Thanks for the heads up on the email. I just deleted it. I spent most of today anchoring and leveling the lathe. I barrowed two levels, a Starett {Spelling is off} precision Bubble type And A Battery operated One. took a while to figure the Starettbut I believe I got it wright. I'll let it set for a day or two then double check before I tighten the anchors. Now I will check my email. Thanks A MILLION Bill

  24. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    Glad to help. I'd use the Starrett level and not even think about the electronic one. You're trying to measure .0005 over 10" or so and to my knowledge there's not an electronic level made (outside of laboratory grade, perhaps) that will do the job. Plan on spending a significant amount of time getting it right the first time around. It goes quicker the next time!

    Remember too that you're not shooting for 'level' with respect to gravity, only level, or flat, all the way along the lathe bed. Therefore, if in the process you get it to where all readings are 'off' by the same amount and in the same direction, you're there!


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •