Need Proper Name or Vernacular For Specific Type Of Pump

Last step to making a coolant coalscer. Bought a pump, but it turned out to not do what it said it would do. So we need a replacement for it. It occurs to me that I may not be getting proper results from searches for not searching for it by its proper name or nomenclature. Hence, the query here.

I want a small pump, similar to what one finds in a garden fountain, running from 110VAC, with LOW throughput ( 160GPH - 120GPH ), and able to draw the liquid without being submerged in it. I want the pump to live outside the coolant tank. Not in it. Only the pick up will live in the tank.

We bough a Little Giant 518087 ( 1-EA-42 ), which says it does that. However, it does not. It requires being either submerged, or being gravity fed. It also turns out to be quite picky about its orientation, too.

So... what is the proper name for what I am looking for?

Pic of the Little Giant that turned out unsuitable.

Why is gravity-fed a problem? Without this, the pump will not be self-priming, and if run dry, may damage itself.

The neighbors shop uses water well jet pumps, place the jet down in the tank.

Prime it once to get started, foot valve should hold prime.

Joe Gwinn said:

Why is gravity-fed a problem? Without this, the pump will not be self-priming, and if run dry, may damage itself.

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Quite simply because one can not guarantee that the pump body will always be lower than the coolant tank, much less that the coolant tank will necessarily have a port that would allow it.

This will be moved from machine to machine. As such, it needs to accommodate.

digger doug said:

The neighbors shop uses water well jet pumps, place the jet down in the tank.
Prime it once to get started, foot valve should hold prime.

Click to expand...

Thanks, but that's a compromise. I am open to it if nothing was available, but I know for a fact that something is available because I have seen them and used them before.** I simply never had a reason to pay that much attention to what it actually was, before now.

As an employee, there was a coalescer that we would move from machine to machine, requiring only the pick-up to be dropped into the tank. I have already made the floating pick up. I'm just not sure what to call the type of pump properly.

** - One was electric, and the other was a pneumatic pump. Both did not require being lower than the coolant tank, and neither needed priming.

Zahnrad Kopf said:

Quite simply because one can not guarantee that the pump body will always be lower than the coolant tank, much less that the coolant tank will necessarily have a port that would allow it.

This will be moved from machine to machine. As such, it needs to accommodate.

Click to expand...

OK. You need a metal-bodied pump with airtight moving-element seals, so the pump can always develop enough of a vacuum to ensure automatic priming (so long as the pump body isn't too far above the reservoir).

You have to have a pump that is capable of lifting the required head of fluid and a self priming at that level. These are common in the hydraulics business but are generally cast iron or aluminum bodied pumps, not garden fountain pumps. I still prefer to have net positive suction, so mount all my pumps below the minimum fluid level, so the pump suction is always flooded.

Joe Gwinn said:

OK. You need a metal-bodied pump with airtight moving-element seals, so the pump can always develop enough of a vacuum to ensure automatic priming (so long as the pump body isn't too far above the reservoir.

Click to expand...

This is ( in various forms ) what I have been using my searches, without any success. I thought that there might be a name for this kind of pump that made it simpler to get pertinent results from a search.

Thanks.

EDIT - I am hoping that someone that has one of these types of coalescers might see this thread and be able to offer some insights from the pumps that they have. Long shot, I know...

I should point out that there are several candidates if one looks to fuel and waste water transfer pumps. They appear perfect in size and throughput, along with ability, not to mention price, but are almost always 12VDC. Finding the exact same thing in 110VAC seems to require 10X the price.

Now, I am well aware that I could cobble together some manner of transformer kit and accomplish the task, but it seems so very unnecessary having seen examples of working kits, before. One should be able to simply purchase something similar to what the companies making these things are...

It's easier for a pump to push than suck (the fluid become the initial seal). Many small pumps on the likes of band saws and lathes have the motor outside and the pump near the tank bottom on the end of an 8-12 inch long shaft. Another reason for this is contaminated fluids wear the heck out of seals and rubber impellers of suction pumps.

comstockfriend said:

You have to have a pump that is capable of lifting the required head of fluid and a self priming at that level. These are common in the hydraulics business but are generally cast iron or aluminum bodied pumps, not garden fountain pumps. I still prefer to have net positive suction, so mount all my pumps below the minimum fluid level, so the pump suction is always flooded.

Click to expand...

I am fine with all of that. But what is it called? I can mount the darn thing on the bottom of the cart that will hold the barrel, thus making it as low as the lowest part of the coolant tank in the machine, but it STILL needs to suck the coolant over the wall/edge of the coolant tank.

So fine forum members... what is the widget called?

Zahnrad Kopf said:

This is ( in various forms ) what I have been using my searches, without any success. I thought that there might be a name for this kind of pump that made it simpler to get pertinent results from a search.

Thanks.

EDIT - I am hoping that someone that has one of these types of coalescers might see this thread and be able to offer some insights from the pumps that they have. Long shot, I know...

Click to expand...

What fluid is being pumped? I surmise that it is a water-oil emulsion, and the coalescer iso intended to collect tramp oil. The reason it matters is that if the pumped fluid is oil, it's easier to achieve sufficient air tightness. What won't work is any kind of centrifugal pump. Must be positive-displacement of some kind.

Lakeside53 said:

It's easier for a pump to push than suck (the fluid become the initial seal). Many small pumps on the likes of band saws and lathes have the motor outside and the pump near the tank bottom on the end of an 8-12 inch long shaft. Another reason for this is contaminated fluids wear the heck out of seals and rubber impellers of suction pumps.

Click to expand...

How about "machine coolant pump" ?

A few hundred examples here : machine coolant pump - Google Search

I infer you want to drop your floating suction hose in any tank. Your pump needs to develop enough suction to get the fluid up and out of the tank, while pumping only air. Since air is much less dense than water, a centrifugal pump will develop little suction, until it is "primed", i.e. full of liquid.

Many centrifugal pumps have a cap or plug in the top of the volute to allow you to pour liquid in, to prime them. Messy and inconvenient. If you can design the rest of your rig so that the pump volute stays full of liquid while you are transferring it from one sump to another, you may have no problem.

Your other alternative to get a self-priming axtion is to use a positive-displavcement pump, like a gear or vane or diaphragm pump. Gears and vanes are not great at pumping air, because they have a little clearance normally "sealed' by liquid, also they like the lube and cooling liquid provides....so I's suggest a diaphragm pump.

Can you post a link or better describe the coalescer you are rtrying to build? "Coalescer" to me means turning mist to solid liquid...need a blower more than a pump for mist, the low-density gas vs high-density liquuid thing again

I think a peristaltic pump will work well for you.

magneticanomaly said:

I infer you want to drop your floating suction hose in any tank. Your pump needs to develop enough suction to get the fluid up and out of the tank, while pumping only air. Since air is much less dense than water, a centrifugal pump will develop little suction, until it is "primed", i.e. full of liquid.

Many centrifugal pumps have a cap or plug in the top of the volute to allow you to pour liquid in, to prime them. Messy and inconvenient. If you can design the rest of your rig so that the pump volute stays full of liquid while you are transferring it from one sump to another, you may have no problem.

Your other alternative to get a self-priming axtion is to use a positive-displavcement pump, like a gear or vane or diaphragm pump. Gears and vanes are not great at pumping air, because they have a little clearance normally "sealed' by liquid, also they like the lube and cooling liquid provides....so I's suggest a diaphragm pump.

Can you post a link or better describe the coalescer you are rtrying to build? "Coalescer" to me means turning mist to solid liquid...need a blower more than a pump for mist, the low-density gas vs high-density liquuid thing again

Click to expand...

Thank you. I occurs that I may indeed be speaking ( writing ) in error... I am talking about the doohickies that pull the tramp oil and coolant from the top of the sump and separate it, then returning the cleaner coolant back to the sump.

So, "Diaphram Pump" would be my search buzz words...? Thanks.

This, in 110VAC/120VAC would seem to be perfect.

https://smile.amazon.com/bayite-Pre...qid=1514393934&sr=8-5&keywords=diaphragm+pump

Or a sliding vane pump.

Zahnrad Kopf said:

This, in 110VAC/120VAC would seem to be perfect.

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Note that it runs on 12 volt DC, so you'll need a small power supply.

The design you want is a cantilever pump. The motor is up on a long driveshaft with no bearings, with the impeller and volute on the far end. They are found in parts washers, as well as coolant sumps of old school mills, lathes and grinders that use flood coolant.

Zahnrad Kopf said:

I am fine with all of that. But what is it called? I can mount the darn thing on the bottom of the cart that will hold the barrel, thus making it as low as the lowest part of the coolant tank in the machine, but it STILL needs to suck the coolant over the wall/edge of the coolant tank.

So fine forum members... what is the widget called?

Click to expand...

NB: I have stored Diesel fuel to transfer and "polish", so this is not just limited to coolants.

Up and "over the wall"? Why?

Pick a convenient low spot. Drill a hole. Install a fitting.

Ball valves recommended, BTW. QD gadgets, liquid or air, seem to be able to identify me as easily annoyed and deliberately LEAK when I am not looking!

The general term is "suction" pump, and self-priming. IOW designs that EXPECT nought but air in their intake and can move enough of it, fast enough, that liquid is pulled up, regardless.

One pays a price for this feature, however. A shop "wet vac" is an extreme example, but the penalty in noise and inefficiency motivates one to find a way to implement a gravity sump - external add-on if need be - that pre-primes itself, gravity generally being cheap, reliable, indifferent to power outages or being out of stock.

We all have drills, no? Unused holes can be PLUGGED too, yah?

Somewhere - perhaps in China - there is a Plumber larfing his arse off at Machinists stumbling about over making this s**t "hard".



12V? There is isn't anything even remotely resembling a shortage of ways to power 12 VDC pumps, and this does not have to be a messy rat's nest jury-rig of wires. Take a few minutes, some common connectors, and make it up neatly. Auto/truck/marine/RV/trailer industries have plenty of connectors that are resistant to anything but bad judgement.

12 VDC pumps tend to be handier sizes than AC pumps anyway, so I take advantage of that skewed price differential you cited and use them as FIRST choice. Not Aquarium goods. Those meant for fuel transfer, dirty-oil scavenge, even RV sewage rather.

Cheap plastic ones are treated as consumable/expendable goods, though some are actually more durable than the all-metal ones. The still reasonably priced metal ones are used for semi-permanent applications.

None will last forever, so a spare or two are kept handy.

2CW