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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan from Oakland View Post
    Rustytool- I can make these for you if you decide to go that way. One offs are never low cost, but there are a few options for the worm itself. Not many options on the worm wheel other than using the one you have or making a new one. Being metric is not an issue here.
    Drop me a PM or e-mail me at [email protected] if you decide to proceed. One thing I will need from you is an exact center distance measured off the machine.
    Dan
    I can't get that measurement right now. Need to do more disassembly and reassembly after I figure out how the puzzle goes together.

  2. #22
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    All being well, I can make these for you,however I am in the U.K, I would not consider making the worm only, if I can help, pm me.

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    What's your budget? We often reverse engineer, design and manufacture precision indexing drives. As mentioned, will need an EXACT operating center distance. Likely will need a custom hob made. Considering design hours, I can't see this costing less than $3500

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    If you can wait for it I will second using Zahnrad, you will not be disappointed.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustytool View Post
    The grinder was disassembled when I got it so I don't know how well it was turning.
    The worm looks like it was half submerged in water for a few years.
    The wheel has one side of the teeth worn down. You can see the part not worn at the bottom of the teeth.
    The worm and wheel supply power to the table for mechanical traverse and wheel head in feed.Attachment 209869Attachment 209870
    I don't see anything special about the worm and the wheel has plenty life in it. Making the worm is pretty routine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    Considering design hours, I can't see this costing less than $3500
    Are you people crazy ? no wonder the US can't sell anything but titty movies worldwide. You are nuts.

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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Are you people crazy ? no wonder the US can't sell anything but titty movies worldwide. You are nuts.
    With the improvements in parting tools, not many tits left either. Or did you mean something else?

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  10. #28
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    Unless perfect evenness of motion is needed, I'd try welding up the eaten-out portions of the worm thread and cleaning up with a file. Certainly lots of life left in the wheel.

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  12. #29
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    At 3500 dollars a set I will make them all day long, get real, this is a simple job with anyone having the right kit. If the gears are providing accurate feed, we need to be careful, but if we only want smooth movement at something like 40:1 reduction, provided with the right data, the job is pretty straightforward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Colman View Post
    At 3500 dollars a set I will make them all day long, get real, this is a simple job with anyone having the right kit. If the gears are providing accurate feed, we need to be careful, but if we only want smooth movement at something like 40:1 reduction, provided with the right data, the job is pretty straightforward.
    At $3500 a set, you'll send it down the street to another shop, and add your 100% markup.....

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    For a AA ground form, topping, multi start gear hob plan on spending $1200.00 4-8 hours to inspect worn parts to identify pitch, pressure angle, pitch dia/lead angle, axial tooth thickness and any profile modifications. Allow 4-6 hours to generate CAD drawings suitable for manufacturing. We will lathe turn blank prior to EDM internal square bore. Thread mill worm, carburize and thread grind profile. Allow $100-$200 for heat treat. Machine set ups and cycle times easily account for another 12-15 hours. Worm gear material will need to be decided based on load, pitch line velocity, and available lubrication. Estimate as $300-$500. Set-up & hob teeth, 2-3 hours. Adapt fixture for mock-up to inspect mesh and backlash at specified center distance. Hope like hell you make no mistakes and guarantee job for full satisfaction.

    Still want to play this game?

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    Default Need a worm and wheel made

    I read until 4-6 hrs to make CAD files...

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  18. #33
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    Firstly, it is a keyway, not a square bore, I see the job like this, calculate gear trains for both worm and wheel 1 hour, turn worm on centre lathe 1/2 hour, turn arbours for both parts 1/2 hour, turn wheel in bronze, 1/2 hour.
    Set hobber for wheel 1/2 hour,hob 1/2 hour, set up for worm, I two start, I have to hob twice so allow1 hour. So at 1000 dollars an hour, even I can make money!

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  20. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustytool View Post
    I was thinking about just putting it back together and see how well it works.
    But I'm no expert.
    What do you think ?
    Try these or just get new ones made ?
    Find a good TIG man and spend an hour or so with a file.............Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhigdog View Post
    Find a good TIG man and spend an hour or so with a file.............Bob
    FFS, file a worm thread after welding it up? Maybe for a garden tiller gearbox, but even then.....a lathe is made for the job, so at least use it. I'd be damned if I'd waste time welding up a worm or a worm gear, it would be so distorted after as to be a piece of garbage. It really doesn't take that long to chase a thread in a new piece of stock.

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    I'm impressed! No need to inspect samples or engineer replacements. And, no tooling. Please post photos of such work you've done. I'm very eager to see your set-up and finished product. For ref, the profile link to my site has some examples I dabble with.

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    Admittedly, I don't know that OP's Studer requires this much precision, but Don is not out of line for what he has written. When you start talking about precision gearing and the tooling, instruments, and machinery required to create it, it adds up quickly.

    Too, people seem to think that time is not money. Frankly, my time is worth more than the auto mechanic's. Yet, people don't bat an eye when they get that bill.

    There is a reason that there are so few knowledgeable and capable gear shops left willing to do onesy/twosey work. This is part of it.

    Sure, giving away time and effort in the interest of hobby enjoyment, half assing a form tool instead of properly Hobbing, and lathe turning a Worm Thread instead of properly Thread Milling and Thread Grinding one are alternatives, but when is the last time someone bought a Class AA custom Hob? They cost money. And not "spare six pack" money, either. The last one I bought was $2,700.00USD and had a 8 week lead time. Oh, you wanted it faster? Sure thing. Add another $500.00USD to that.

    Don's been around for as long as he has for a reason. And it ain't because he gave away the farm.

    I'm fairly sure that OP's set can have some corners cut and costs shaved, but I would love to know what people think a proper quality Worm and Wheel set should cost when it needs to be completely reverse engineered and created.

    How many hours do you think are in them? And what equipment will they be inspected on?

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  27. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    Admittedly, I don't know that OP's Studer requires this much precision, but Don is not out of line for what he has written. When you start talking about precision gearing and the tooling, instruments, and machinery required to create it, it adds up quickly.

    Too, people seem to think that time is not money. Frankly, my time is worth more than the auto mechanic's. Yet, people don't bat an eye when they get that bill.

    There is a reason that there are so few knowledgeable and capable gear shops left willing to do onesy/twosey work. This is part of it.

    Sure, giving away time and effort in the interest of hobby enjoyment, half assing a form tool instead of properly Hobbing, and lathe turning a Worm Thread instead of properly Thread Milling and Thread Grinding one are alternatives, but when is the last time someone bought a Class AA custom Hob? They cost money. And not "spare six pack" money, either. The last one I bought was $2,700.00USD and had a 8 week lead time. Oh, you wanted it faster? Sure thing. Add another $500.00USD to that.

    Don's been around for as long as he has for a reason. And it ain't because he gave away the farm.

    I'm fairly sure that OP's set can have some corners cut and costs shaved, but I would love to know what people think a proper quality Worm and Wheel set should cost when it needs to be completely reverse engineered and created.

    How many hours do you think are in them? And what equipment will they be inspected on?
    I'd never question the quality of you guys who do this for a living. However, I think you may take everything too seriously sometimes. A standard worm and gear set from Boston gear or some such facility would probably serve this customer's purpose. Consider the amount of wear on the worm gear: that got that way by being used while it wore to that condition. So if it was still serving its purpose, then in my mind, it is not a precision application that needs any sort of verification, it simply needs to fit in the gearbox, and have the correct ratio, and the worm needs to be smooth enough not to chew the hell out of the gear. Don't you, being in the gear business, actually have some hobs in stock? Does every customer have to buy you a new hob?

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    I'll offer compromise solution between Hubble telescope positioning gear vs. welded +filed hack:

    Turn the worm thread and re-use existing wheel.
    Modular and diametral pitches are standard issue in many lathes.

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  30. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    I'd never question the quality of you guys who do this for a living. However, I think you may take everything too seriously sometimes.
    You, Sir, are absolutely correct. Guilty. Freely admitted. In fact, I've written it here, before - I am, admittedly, a Gear Snob.

    That said, I also wrote that I don't know that OP's Studer requires this level of precision. I don't know what said Worm and Wheel do, and OP has not said yet. It may just be a gross movement set, or it may be a fine movement set. Until we know, it's all just pissing into a fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    A standard worm and gear set from Boston gear or some such facility would probably serve this customer's purpose. Consider the amount of wear on the worm gear: that got that way by being used while it wore to that condition. So if it was still serving its purpose, then in my mind, it is not a precision application that needs any sort of verification, it simply needs to fit in the gearbox, and have the correct ratio, and the worm needs to be smooth enough not to chew the hell out of the gear. Don't you, being in the gear business, actually have some hobs in stock? Does every customer have to buy you a new hob?
    Absolutely stock Hobs. Bunches of them, even. We haven't even gotten to the Hob sharpening, yet... But I digress...

    Given the origin of the machine, and some experience in this area**, I'm going to bet that the set in question are NOT any common, "standard" manner of Worm and Wheel. ( as much as the fallacy of one even exists ) And, it is also highly probable to be Module based. So, custom Module Wheel Hob.

    ** - It is more common than not for a manufacturer to have made custom gear tooling to suit their desired engineered center distances than it is for them to move components to accommodate "standard" Worm & Wheel sets. The application design almost always determines the gearing. Very RARELY the other way around.

    Now, having said all of that you will note that I also said that this particular gear set could likely have some corners cut and costs saved. But this is still not some "Joe Shit, The Ragman" $200.00 effort.

    Truth of the matter is just what I wrote - Don is speaking about a precision gear set. What he posted is not out of line, for what he is referring to. Whether or not the OP's needs are the same remains to be seen.


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