New MULTIFIX kids on the block...

maxmartnl · Feb 21, 2014

Hi there,
I am sure to know that there are a lot of MULTIFIX / MULTI-SUISSE / WECHSELFIX and "look-alike" QCT systems among us. Recently a few European producers have started to produce some interesting alternatives to the known "NOT VERY CHEAP EUROPEAN QUALITY MULTIFIX SYTEMS" (t.i. an understatemant ofcourse). It may be of interest to you all to at least give these systems a look to determine if they could be of use to you. I'll post some pistures tomorrrow.
Regards,
Max

L Vanice · Feb 21, 2014

Very interesting. One of the puzzles of buying 40 position QC parts is that they generally have no indication of maker. Most have no indication of country of origin. One of the good things about them is that they all seem to happily mix and match.

Most of my set was bought from Enco over 30 years ago and the parts are marked Switzerland. They may have been made by Minder, but I can't tell. I have another set I bought used which may be German, but has no helpful markings. I bought it for the threading holder, which has some advantages over the Swiss design.

Larry

maxmartnl · Feb 21, 2014

Hi Larry,
I'll add the info that I've got about the different makes and how to recognize these.
J.F.MINDER(Geneva) is top of the bill in quality, keep them in good shape...
Regards,
Max

L Vanice said:
Very interesting. One of the puzzles of buying 40 position QC parts is that they generally have no indication of maker. Most have no indication of country of origin. One of the good things about them is that they all seem to happily mix and match.

Most of my set was bought from Enco over 30 years ago and the parts are marked Switzerland. They may have been made by Minder, but I can't tell. I have another set I bought used which may be German, but has no helpful markings. I bought it for the threading holder, which has some advantages over the Swiss design.

Larry

maxmartnl · Feb 22, 2014

Hi,
Here are 2 new producers of MULTIFIX QCT systems in Germany. They quarantee a 100% fit to original MULTI-SUISSE systems and both have pretty high production standards. It might be interesting foor you to get a "sample" to check out if this tooling meets your standards and at the same time is costeffective enough to get it shipped to you. I don't know if they are English spoken, but I suppose they are. A mail could do a miracle to find out if they are ready to go WWW. They sell through ebay.de and have some shipping restrictions, but I think they will like to sell to e.g. the USA and Canada as well.

TWG:
TWG Multifix Set Schnellwechselstahlhalter Größe A | eBay

PEWETOOLS:
Schnellwechselhalterset System Multifix A mit AD2090 und Härteprüfprotokoll | eBay

There are a few more , I'm still figuring out if they are single point of production or buy in.

The doc is still in progress alas...
Regards,
Max

Forrest Addy · Feb 22, 2014

Not to pirate the spotlight away from up and coming Euro manufacturers of the excellent Mulifix tool post design but...

Here's a review I wrote a few years ago about a Chinese clone of Multifix made by Create Tool. I said it was pretty good then and a few years of use in the shop has given me no reason to change my mind. They are 1/2 to 1/4 the price of the European makers I researched at the time.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/multifix-toolholder-clone-review-222390/

The fit, finish, and function is good and they interchange vith my 1972 Enco system very well but I did have to elongate the 10 mm ID clamping features in the holders a little for readier tool change. The most likely weak point of Asian import stuff is metallurgy and heat treatment. The tool holders is checked were just short of file hard and show no more than light polish and minor scuffing at points of wear.

I do not suggest those who insist on "quality above all" buy them because the stigma of "Asian import goods" hangs prepetually over them regardless of objective merit. They would, I am sure, be so much happier with the genuine goods to the point they need not disparage what they may preceive as rightly beneath their ken.

The rest of us may find the Create Tool clone of the Multifix system satisfactory for home shop and light commercial use.

Original Multifix--Create Tool - Toolholder expert ---- Multifix toolpost toolholder | CNC toolholder | QCTP 40 Position QUICK CHANGE TOOL POST HOLDER for Lathe l Best quality Multifix l Good quality Multifix l Manufacturer Multifix l Supplier Multif

L Vanice · Feb 22, 2014

Pewetools lists the tiny 24 position QC set (Aaa) on US eBay for $335 + $48 shipping. That is their only listing for USA buyers.

Smallest Quick Change Tool Post of The World System Multifix You Must See | eBay

The same set is on their German eBay site for EUR 299 including tax. They refuse to ship items from their German site to the USA, but I see they have additional types of tool holders for the Aaa set on the German site. I also see they have extra screws and parts for the A and Aa holders on the German site, and I would buy some if the shipping was not too much.

BRANDNEU !!! Weltweit kleinstes Schnellwechselhalterset System Multifix Aaa | eBay

I bought a Komet FG1 threading tool from a German seller last year. He wanted a huge price to ship DHL, the only option he listed. I asked if he could ship by ordinary post and he did, for much less money. I see some other Komet FG1 blades on German eBay now that I would bid on, but no shipping outside Germany.

So, shipping is the big deterrent for USA buyers looking at German goods, whether the shipping is expensive or simply not available.

Larry

L Vanice · Feb 22, 2014

Forrest Addy said:
...I do not suggest those who insist on "quality above all" buy them because the stigme of "import goods" hangs prepetually over them regardless of objective merit. ...

These tools were never made in the USA, so they are all "import goods." I am an engineer and just want stuff that works like it should.

Larry

Forrest Addy · Feb 22, 2014

L Vanice said:
... I am an engineer and just want stuff that works like it should.

Larry

My sentiments exactly but I'm - a machinist dependent on other machinists engineers, welders, fabricators, molder and patternmakers, electricians, etc. Small cogs each of us but we carry a vital load.

jCandlish · Feb 22, 2014

L Vanice said:
24 position

Cool! Divides by 3, unlike 40.

PeWe sounds familiar, like PeTeWe.

dian · Feb 22, 2014

"Recently a few European producers have started to produce some interesting alternatives"

either you are kidding or out of your mind.

Mark Rand · Feb 22, 2014

I have two Multifix/Multisuisse A size tool posts and a couple of dozen tool holders. At some time in the foreseeable future I will probably buy one of the Chinee or European clone tool posts due to my 'best' one being at the end of its life. The cams and clamps tend to wear out after barely 50 years and buying a replacement is simpler than making new...

<jbc>:- 24 would have been better in a lot of ways. 40 was a strange choice of divisions. :crazy:

maxmartnl · Feb 22, 2014

Hi,

dian said:
"Recently a few European producers have started to produce some interesting alternatives"
either you are kidding or out of your mind.

dian, please explain yourself...

24position is only for the tiny AAA size, AA(A0) and bigger are 40position.

Shipping spoils it all then, 5Kg parcel with T&Trace and insurance up to 500E from here to USA costs 35Euro's , up to 10KG 60Euro's.

Regards,
Max

Don Clement · Feb 22, 2014

Max,

Interesting that you started a thread on Multifix when your avatar is of a KDK 119 5C bar. BTW I have at least four KDK 119 or chicom clone 119 bars that fit either a KDK 100 or KDK 150 QCTP. The interchangeability is one of the nice things about KDK.

Don Clement

maxmartnl · Feb 22, 2014

Hi Don,
Finally , you are the first to have recognized it! (Probably a few more people will have but they didn't point that out.) I even have the original 1" and 1/2" HARDINGE 5C collets with it, quality meets quality....
If I could buy new and real KDK I would certainly do so. Over here in the Netherlands I might well be the only one to have such a KDK QCT set and it's virtually impossible to get new toolholders over here, other then out of the USA. In time I'll post a few pictures of them. I think it's a shame that Jack Kuhn's products have ceased and I'm still wondering why no one in California took up the factory and restarted production. If I'ld live over there I'ld do it myself....
So MULTIFIX are one of the few remaining quality QCT- sets until now, therefore my interest in these and to contribute to make it possible for everyone to acquire good and accurate CQT sets, over here and over there.
Regards,
Max

Don Clement said:
Max,
Interesting that you started a thread on Multifix when your avatar is of a KDK 119 5C bar. BTW I have at least four KDK 119 or chicom clone 119 bars that fit either a KDK 100 or KDK 150 QCTP. The interchangeability is one of the nice things about KDK.
Don Clement

maxmartnl · Feb 22, 2014

Hi Mark,
I recon it's bad that they wear out in AFTER BARELY 50 YEARS OF USE, I agree the quality is dubious indeed

. But don't worry there are QCT's that fade away a bit sooner.

Mark Rand said:
I have two Multifix/Multisuisse A size tool posts and a couple of dozen tool holders. At some time in the foreseeable future I will probably buy one of the Chinee or European clone tool posts due to my 'best' one being at the end of its life. The cams and clamps tend to wear out after barely 50 years and buying a replacement is simpler than making new...

<jbc>:- 24 would have been better in a lot of ways. 40 was a strange choice of divisions.

Don Clement · Feb 22, 2014

Hi Max,

Here in Southern California, the birth place of KDK, used bars and tool posts are quite common. It's only been in the last few years after KDK moved to Arizona that they went out of business. There are some chi.com clones available. the first thing I do with the clones is to throw out the POS allen screws and replace them with Holo-krome. Standard Fasteners, Cap Screws, Set Screws, Bolts: Holo-Krome Here are a few of my KDK bars.

Don Clement

Nick Mueller · Feb 23, 2014

Here are 2 new producers of MULTIFIX QCT systems in Germany.

What I can tell you for sure is, that PeWeTools is NOT a German manufacturer. He is an importer of Chinese bads ... er .. goods.
A bunch of years ago, I had personal contact with him. I wanted to redistribute his glass-scales (Sino). But he told such piles of unrelated garbage, that I gave up.

His Multifix clones are also known to have problems. And if you complain about the quality, he is threatening with a lawyer. Happened in a German forum and consequently, he later was banned.

Re TWG:
I have no background information. But I highly doubt that he is a manufacturer.
I just have to read the text on his eBay page to get suspicious. Too much blabla and too many errors and obfuscation.

Stay with Axa, Haase or better with the genuine Multifix.

Nick

Nick Mueller · Feb 23, 2014

TWG also sells lathe tool bits.
Impressive! That's all he has to offer. Oh, in different sizes!
No inserts, nothing. Just Chinese crap. Even in the wrong color. P30 (for steel) should be blue. Quality K is for cast iron and is red.

Nick

dian · Feb 23, 2014

so has anybody recently (in the past few moths) bought any of the asian multifix holders and can confirm they work reasonably well?

maxmartnl · Feb 23, 2014

Hi Don,
Thanks for the info, so these KDK style do the job after replacing the screws? That's at least an alternative. Still is a pitty that original KDK stopped.

Don Clement said:
Hi Max,
Here in Southern California, the birth place of KDK, used bars and tool posts are quite common. It's only been in the last few years after KDK moved to Arizona that they went out of business. There are some chi.com clones available. the first thing I do with the clones is to throw out the POS allen screws and replace them with Holo-krome. Standard Fasteners, Cap Screws, Set Screws, Bolts: Holo-Krome Here are a few of my KDK bars.
Don Clement

@Nick: Thanks for the PEWETOOLS info, best leave them aside then...

About TWG: I know a guy who has bought a complete A(A1) set and he uses it quite heavily. He still hasn't complaints about them.

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