New student. Reading ahead. Lost.

Hi all. So I had to make an account here. I need advice from actual machinists.

Given my aptitude for mathematics, the physical sciences, and decent blueprint reading skills, I've decided to give machining another go.

My first try was with a pretty hands-off (lame, lazy) instructor, and a very poorly designed program. The second week, he handed us a blueprint and told us "make this on the mill." I was unfortunately born not knowing how to operate a mill, so I bounced and got my money back. I felt like the school had wasted my time.

Now I'm in a new town at a new college. I've always been very impressed by, and very interested in, machining, mechanical engineering, manufacturing, and the like. So I started talking to program leads. The machining guy convinced me to give it another go. They seemed to be a little more on top of things there, so I said "why not?"

I'm determined to succeed, but I know I'll be getting zero help from the textbook. It was suggested that I read ahead, especially the lathe chapter, as the lathe is the first thing we'll be working on. Here's an exerpt: "The gibs on the cross slide and the compound slide may need to be adjusted if there is excess clearance between the gib and the dovetail slide. Adjust the gibs only when the slide is completely over its mating dovetail." "Sometimes a machinist must interchange gears in the gear train to a lead screw on the headstock end of the lathe"

Here's the deal: I don't know what that means. No idea. Not a clue. Am I supposed to? This book is completely useless. What the hell is a gib? Is that like a Gibbon, and why do we need monkeys for industrial machinery?

I just paid for the class, but being that I've experimented with this and that for awhile, I'm pretty much done experimenting. I don't want to waste any more time. I want a solid skill set and a job. If I can't understand a word of this ridiculous book, what are my chances of actually learning machining? Will I be wasting my time? Should I get my money back and do something else?

Sincerely,
A very frustrated student

I'm thinking this textbook will be better used as fire kindling. A 100 dollar fire. There is no way I'll be able to learn anything from it. Not a chance.

Have you done any reading other than that textbook? Are you sure there aren't any descriptions of the lathe parts and such in there?

Has the course even started yet?

Have you googled "what is a gib" "what is a late leadscrew"?

This forum is filled with some seriously knowledgeable folks but I have a feeling you're going to catch some flak for being lazy and expecting spoonfeeding. If you stick through that and stick around you'll be alright. If it gets you in a huff then I'd look for some other thing to spend your time on, machining might not be for you.

I think I read more than a dozen books on machining before I started my school, whatever they had at the library.

Screwmachine said:

Have you done any reading other than that textbook? Are you sure there aren't any descriptions of the lathe parts and such in there?

Has the course even started yet?

Have you googled "what is a gib" "what is a late leadscrew"?

This forum is filled with some seriously knowledgeable folks but I have a feeling you're going to catch some flak for being lazy and expecting spoonfeeding. If you stick through that and stick around you'll be alright. If it gets you in a huff then I'd look for some other thing to spend your time on, machining might not be for you.

I think I read more than a dozen books on machining before I started my school, whatever they had at the library.

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My apologies, my question wasn't "what does this stuff mean?" If I asked those types of questions, I'd fill up the forum and get booted for spamming.

It was more along the lines of "Will I be wasting my time?"

The instructor at the school will certainly have to spoonfeed me. The only book that I've found that I can make sense of is the Army Machining Manual, which itself is pretty spoon-feedy.

Screwmachine said:

Have you done any reading other than that textbook? Are you sure there aren't any descriptions of the lathe parts and such in there?

Has the course even started yet?

Have you googled "what is a gib" "what is a late leadscrew"?

This forum is filled with some seriously knowledgeable folks but I have a feeling you're going to catch some flak for being lazy and expecting spoonfeeding. If you stick through that and stick around you'll be alright. If it gets you in a huff then I'd look for some other thing to spend your time on, machining might not be for you.

I think I read more than a dozen books on machining before I started my school, whatever they had at the library.

Click to expand...

And I'm well aware that if I need to, I can google these terms. My point was, being that I understand almost none of the terminology, in the interest of time, it's just not feasible. I'll be googling my life away. But maybe that's what I need to do. My question is more along the lines of, being that the book will be of zero help, will it be possible to get my knowledge elsewhere? Like, will a hands-on approach in an actual shop better prepare me than a textbook? Do I have a shot at succeeding with that angle?

We live in the world of the computer and everything can be researched.Google everything for example there seems to be a "YouTube" expert for everything these days.So "Youtube adjusting a gibb key on the lathe"-Bingo theres some watching for you. Im surprised they dont teach you the basics of operating each machine as this would be a health and safety issue.Dont be discouraged as it takes time to learn and it will all begin to fall into place as you go progress thro your course and never be afraid to ask.Im sure your instructer would welcome your questions and look on them as an inquisitive mind.Sounds to me as you have gave up at the first hurdle and believe me you will encounter a lot more as you go along this is how you learn.You say you are determined to suceed on your second attempt and thats the attitude to have to be the best if you fall short you will still be good.So brush yourself down research on the computer on things like a "gibb" read some books from the library not all of them will be good but some will.You will get there but it takes effort and determination-Dont expect to be the bee,s knee,s in 12mths an engineering aprenticeship takes 4yrs for a reason and thats only to arm you with the knowledge to go out and progress the old saying is your never too old to learn so you will no doubt still be adding to your knowledge in 40yrs time as if you stop learning you stop improving.Patience is the name of the game it will pay dividens in the long term.So good luck the world of engineering is your oyster you are starting on a path many of us have troden before you

onecut said:

We live in the world of the computer and everything can be researched Im surprised they dont teach you the basics of operating each machine as this would be a health and safety issue.Dont be discouraged as it takes time to learn and it will all begin to fall into place as you go progress thro your course and never be afraid to ask.Im sure your instructer would welcome your questions and look on them as an inquisitive mind.Sounds to me as you have gave up at the first hurdle and believe me you will encounter a lot more as you go along this is how you learn.You say you are determined to suceed on your second attempt and thats the attitude to have to be the best if you fall short you will still be good.So brush yourself down research on the computer on things like a "gibb" read some books from the library not all of them will be good but some will.You will get there but it takes effort and determination-Good luck the world of engineering is your oyster

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My apologies good sir I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm too lazy to google or go to the library. It will be massively time consuming but maybe that's what I need to do. If I want it bad enough, and that's what it takes, I'll do it. But I'm green. Very green. I can make out any blueprint, measure, and calculate, but tooling and machinery is very new to me. Anyway, thanks for the patience and kind words.

Screwmachine said:

Have you done any reading other than that textbook? Are you sure there aren't any descriptions of the lathe parts and such in there?

Has the course even started yet?

Have you googled "what is a gib" "what is a late leadscrew"?

This forum is filled with some seriously knowledgeable folks but I have a feeling you're going to catch some flak for being lazy and expecting spoonfeeding. If you stick through that and stick around you'll be alright. If it gets you in a huff then I'd look for some other thing to spend your time on, machining might not be for you.

I think I read more than a dozen books on machining before I started my school, whatever they had at the library.

Click to expand...

Who would have known that suggesting the obvious would be so helpful.

Google has told me what a gib is. I now know.

At this point I'm just hoping that I have the time to do this on a near constant basis while getting through the textbook. If I can find the time, I think I can succeed. Machining has it's own language. It's jargon is as complex as that of any other field from what I can tell, and boy do they throw you right into it.

Anyway, thanks. Machining is seriously cool stuff. I'd love to know how to do it.

Its not too bad, "gibs" are one of the few terms that come out of left field. But most other stuff the name is kinda what you'd assume it to be.

It does seem overwhelming at first, so many different "things"....

alskdjfhg said:

Its not too bad, "gibs" are one of the few terms that come out of left field. But most other stuff the name is kinda what you'd assume it to be.

It does seem overwhelming at first, so many different "things"....

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I'm definitely making sure I go into it with a good knowledge base. The job I have at the moment is a weekend gig delivering flowers (I make more than you'd think, lol), so there's no excuse not to take the time to do that. I'm going to google the hell out of everything. EVERYTHING. Freakin' gibs, man. Counter-sinking. Counter-boring. Reaming. Tapping. Ways. Morse taper. You shall all be thoroughly googled.

I just got very flustered with that book. Ugh. It was like, machine-gunning terms at me that I'd never heard before. The Army Machining Manual is way better. It's not as in depth, but definitely easier to understand.

HI Sm412. At the very least you sound like you give a damn and are eager to learn. Much more than I can say about our latest batch of shop applicants! Keep your eyes and ears open, you`ll learn as you go, just like every one of us did. Good luck!!

I would say that text is pretty crappy. As a beginner, I really would NOT want you adjusting my gibs ! Not unless you've got a pair of solid lifters, anyhow.

If'n I wuz teachin', first thing would be safety glasses and dress code, then we'd all walk over and take a turn at the lathe (pointing out what each piece is and what they do.) Turn some stuff. Then discuss tool geometry at the blackboard. Then test out what we just learned. Then discuss materials, and test out what we learned. Then, after y'all had a bit of hands-on, we'd talk general theory. Even physicists start out with an abacus. Six blind men and the elephant, ya know ?

But I ain't teachin' ....

uncledenny said:

HI Sm412. At the very least you sound like you give a damn and are eager to learn. Much more than I can say about our latest batch of shop applicants! Keep your eyes and ears open, you`ll learn as you go, just like every one of us did. Good luck!!

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Hey, thanks man! I'm one of the most ambitious and motivated individuals that you'll ever meet. Anything that impedes on my path to success gets cut out of my life like a .050 hitter gets cut from the Yankees.

For example, I was a hard drinker. Boy did I ever love partying and bars. Made a lifestyle out of it for some time. But when I decided that I'd do whatever it took to improve my life, I made the decision that being drunk and stupid was NOT the business. Can't be your best with a raging hangover. It had to go, haven't touched a drop since. I WILL get this. Mark my words. Not giving up this easy.

SeaMoss said:

I would say that text is pretty crappy. As a beginner, I really would NOT want you adjusting my gibs ! Not unless you've got a pair of solid lifters, anyhow.

If'n I wuz teachin', first thing would be safety glasses and dress code, then we'd all walk over and take a turn at the lathe (pointing out what each piece is and what they do.) Turn some stuff. Then discuss tool geometry at the blackboard. Then test out what we just learned. Then discuss materials, and test out what we learned. Then, after y'all had a bit of hands-on, we'd talk general theory. Even physicists start out with an abacus. Six blind men and the elephant, ya know ?

But I ain't teachin' ....

Click to expand...

Word! I'll keep that in mind. I've met the instructors and I feel pretty good about them. The one I talked to didn't seem to think my greenness was any great hurdle. I was just tripping. That book had me flustered. Anyway, google will definitely be my best friend until I start to pick up on things. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

When I read your posts you do not strike me to be the patient type.
Machining is a trade like any other, be it carpenter or electrician. Skills is accumulated through experience.
Nobody knows it all in a month, a year or a decade.
But again, if you put your mind to it you can learn anything. Attitude is important. Very important.
Being humble and patient will get you a long way, in everything you do.
Start sweeping the floors in a machine shop, use your eyes and ears more than your tongue.
That is how most of us started.

Use it as you like, just my 0.02$

"It will be massively time consuming but maybe that's what I need to do."
Unfortunately, it has been 'massively time consuming'/40+yrs for me/us to learn what we know, eh?
JinNJ, still learning..lots

Maybe your instructor has time to answer your questions. And don't be afraid to ask questions here. There's always the chance you may be ignored or worse, but if you can take it (and hand it out a bit, with humor) and show a willingness to learn, you'll get lots of good advice. Some of us can still remember what it's like to be in your position and have some sympathy.

Google is certainly useful for specific questions like "what is a gib?", but maybe not so useful for "What does it do and how does it fit into the overall assembly, how does one adjust it, why", etc. More useful to me in my rapid learning phase were friends/acquaintances and coworkers. Social/professional contacts are just as important in the machining world as in any other.

Now comes the advice.

Learn how you learn, if you don't know already. (My apologies if I sound presumptuous.) Are you a hands on guy that learns by taking things apart? Are pictures better than words? How many repetitions does it take for you to understand a new concept? Sketch, even if it's only 2D that looks like crap at first. And be patient. Sometimes walking away from it and coming back later in a different frame of mind is the most effective thing to do. Get a job while going to school, if you possibly can. The difference between classroom and shop can be big.

You've got persistence. Excellent personality trait for a machinist.

All done for now.

neil

You may start with different textbook - for example " David Fenner
The Mini-Lathe (Workshop Practice)". It is cheap and easy to read - even if the topic is "unmentionable" machine you will at least pickup some wording for feature reference

Of coarse you don't understand what the terminology means, that's why you are educating yourself. In my opinion not one bit of knowledge will be a "waste of time", you have no clue what path lies in front of you. I have encountered many machinist in my life that are so singular focused it limits their abilities, and limited abilities means limited value to an employer.

Frankly dropping out of the first program seems like a weak move to me, any one who has an inkling of interest in machining would have been happy as a dog with two dicks to be told "go make this on the mill". It sounds like you want a spoon fed coarse to success, that isn't how it works, a GOOD machinist is not only mechanically inclined but intelligent, curious, creative, resourceful and industrious. Right now you need to be a sponge and learn every single thing you can.

So many text books try to cover way too many things.. like a sidewalk engineer looking at the whole job from a block away..one must start with the first things.
How to make a lathe part straight end to end..how to make a part flat on a surface grinder. how to make a part square..why you grind a tool bit like this.. Where is the stat button.

Some lathe hands never tighten a gib or replace the cross feed screw...they call over the machine repair guy.
Plus learning takes time, 3 and 40 years down the road you will still learn new things.

My friend john now passed made an air compressor at college perhaps 60 years ago.. poured the casting. turned the crank and parts..I have it out in the shop and it still works..Then he taught machine shop for years..