Nicholson files score

tnmgcarbide · May 25, 2017

Recently picked up a bunch of vintage USA made files at a yard sale. $1 each. Most were so clogged with wood, that they were pristine underneath. Anyway, I know Nicholson files were sold as other names..... Black diamond, k+f come to mind. Simonds files weren't Nicholson, but
very respectable too.What's some other monikers I might overlook when picking used files?

John Welden · May 25, 2017

tnmgcarbide said:
Recently picked up a bunch of vintage USA made files at a yard sale. $1 each. Most were so clogged with wood, that they were pristine underneath. Anyway, I know Nicholson files were sold as other names..... Black diamond, k+f come to mind. Simonds files weren't Nicholson, but
very respectable too.What's some other monikers I might overlook when picking used files?

New fils are cheap. New files aren't dull ass crap.

MrStretch · May 25, 2017

The older Nicholson swiss-pattern files are awesome. I've been using #4 and #6 flat hand files for years. Amongst my favorite tools.

L Vanice · May 25, 2017

tnmgcarbide said:
...What's some other monikers I might overlook when picking used files?

I saw a few old files at a garage sale years ago and took the time to check the names on them. One was stamped Winchester, so I bought it for fifty cents. I took it with me to an antique engine show that had antique tool sellers in the flea market area and got $10 for the file. Most people do not know that the gun maker added tools to their product line after WWI, and that the tools are rare and sought by collectors. I did know that much, but still don't know just how rare that file was, or what a collector might pay today.

Larry

tnmgcarbide · May 25, 2017

ahemm... i guess no-one here knows the answer to the op. i'd bet if you had a stockpile of NOS Black
Diamond files, and knew what poor shit the current files were... you'd understand ...

the last few files i bought were mush . two were 10" bastard cut and the other a chainsaw file .
both nicholson made in brazil/ other in mexico . both were not cheap . didn't last a week.
i could've bought 30 cheap files from dollar tree , but at least i would'a known what to expect,.

nicholson files were what i consider fine machinist tools.

sometimes the most accurate way to shape
something is with a good file.

..any other names?

MrStretch · May 25, 2017

Look for the fish or rabbit.

Frank Ford · May 25, 2017

tnmgcarbide said:
..any other names?

My files have a new best friend by the name of BOGGS.

We have six full time guys who are rough on files, and not particularly careful about how they're stored, so after reading on this forum (I think) about file sharpening, I boxed up fifty or so files of all sizes, qualities, condition and styles, and sent them off to Boggs Tool for resharpening.

All I can say is, "Holy Moly!" Boggs sharpened all of them for very little cost, and sent them back in a hurry. The coarser standard mill, double cut, triangular, or chainsaw files came back noticeably sharper than new. Some of the fine tooth, specialized or teeny jewelers files came back as "rejects" but still WAY improved and perfectly useful again. I now believe Harry Boggs is telling the truth when he says he has clients who buy new files and send them to him for sharpening before they ever use them.

So, I know it's not a direct answer to the original question, but I thought this might be a good place to put in a word about this amazing traditional old-tech service. I figure on being a regular customer - it's so easy.

L Vanice · May 25, 2017

tnmgcarbide said:
.....any other names?

Vallorbe, Union Abbaye, Glardon, Grobet, Dixon and Stubs are good old names.

In my experience, age and condition are much more important than brand name. Thirty or fifty years ago, a file that said Japan on it, or Craftsman, could be expected to be perfectly good.

Timing is everything when it comes to tool quality. Brands that were good a couple of decades ago are likely to just be old names on new junk these days.

Timing... In 1983, a local industrial supply house was moving and had a huge clearance sale. I bought their entire stock of Nicholson files, about 750 pieces, for 25 cents each. That is my version of winning a lottery.

Larry

traditional-tools · May 25, 2017

L Vanice said:
One was stamped Winchester

Winchester happens to be a tool maker that is sought after to any vintage aficionados. This is true of their chisels also.

They had a reputation for making quality tools.

ewlsey · May 25, 2017

There must be a post on here once a month about how awful the new Mexico made Nicholson files are. I can't wrap my head around it. The Mexican files are about equally as junk as the older US made files were. You buy 5 or 6 and at least 1 is dull or soft right out of the box. It's been that way my whole time in the shop.

eKretz · May 25, 2017

I've never run into a soft Nicholson file that was marked as made in the U.S.A. Must be lucky I guess.

tnmgcarbide · May 25, 2017

i don't remember any 'junk' nicholson files . perhaps i've forgotten the bad ones./

TeachMePlease · May 25, 2017

Frank Ford said:
My new best file friend's name is BOGGS.

We have six full time guys who are rough on files, and not particularly careful about how they're stored

This has me curious... I've read all sorts of things (here, and other places online) about how you *SHOULD* store a file... From pipes full of oil, and only in the vertical position, to hermetically sealed in a vault...

I store my files in my tool box, the small ones are stored in their cases, and the large ones are next to each other, but not in a way that they will rub when I open/close the drawers... Do I really need to be more careful than that?

John Garner · May 25, 2017

tnmgcarbide --

Many years ago, the Simonds and Heller Brothers file companies came under common ownership. Shortly thereafter, the manufacture of Simonds-branded files was moved to the Heller Brothers plant in Newcomerstown, Ohio. Once that happened, the Simonds "Red Tang" and Heller "White Tang" files became peas of the same pod.

Other US file makers that come to mind are American Swiss, Atkins Saw (which bought American Swiss before itself being bought by Nicholson), and Disston Saw (bought-out by Sandvik).

John

eKretz · May 26, 2017

The important thing when storing files is not to let them contact each other. Storing files so that the teeth are in contact is asking for dull files. Pretty much akin to throwing sharp endmills in a jumbled mess in a drawer. I've never worried about tubes full of oil, vertical only storage or any of that, and my files cut just fine and last for years. Putting them in storage in a garage or not using them much would be a different story though, and rust prevention would be more important.

tnmgcarbide · May 27, 2017

There must be a post on here once a month about how awful the new Mexico made Nicholson files are.

i think theres a common reason for that. the steel is shit.

ewlsey · May 27, 2017

It's no shittier than it's always been. Your used files have just gone through a natural selection process.

Mark Rand · May 27, 2017

I can't see that there is much you can do wrong with a high carbon steel or even a more exotic steel alloy for files. Similarly, heat treatment is well characterises, whether bulk or induction hardening.

What I have seen, over the forty years in which I was employed, is very many people that used files and hacksaws in ways that were bound to damage them. HSS hacksaw blades shouldn't be used much faster than 100fpm==one stroke per second. Carbon steel files are happier at 60-75fpm. Releasing the pressure on the back stroke is imperative as well to reduce damage.

gwilson · May 28, 2017

I cautiously report that Nicholson files seem to have gotten their problems fixed. I've tried a few new Mexican Nicholsons,and they were once again hard,after a year or two of being SOFT.

I had reported to Nicholson that their Mexican files were soft as butter. They did reply back,and seem to have gotten the problem solved. Unless you get an early manufactured Mexican file,you ought to be o.k..

tnmgcarbide · May 28, 2017

if the new files are better , that's great. i'll try again and see what happens. as said, it's just
HCS , and should be simple enough to make without any fuckups. but when i can't sharpen my chainsaw
the first time around, because the file went kaput... or i can't deburr a few dozen parts 'cause the file
went soggy... it's obvious.

i am a stickler for file technique. if i hear someone scrub-brushing a file (even if it isn't mine!)
i get pissed! " IT ONLY CUTS ONE WAY...ASSHOLE.." which i probably said to my dad or some stranger,who now thinks i'm insane and wants to kill me......

i can't help it.

Nicholson files score

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond; Mod Squad

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond; Mod Squad

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

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