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Nonsparking aluminum bronze tools and acetylene
- Thread starter Goff
- Start date
- Replies 14
- Views 5,597
Bill D
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
- Location
- Modesto, CA USA
I would guess do not heat beryllium up so you are breathing vapors. Or it may mean do not allow copper and acetylene gas to mix/combine as it forms an explosive compound that will detonate by shocks.
Bill D
Bill D
PeteM
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Location
- West Coast, USA
Usual explanation is that copper and acetylene can form an acetylide, which is explosive.
What puzzles me is that plumbers have used air-acetylene torches on copper, brass, and bronze fittings for near a century -- and the profession has somehow survived. Could be it's only a small bit of copper, broken from a tool, that can readily combine.
What puzzles me is that plumbers have used air-acetylene torches on copper, brass, and bronze fittings for near a century -- and the profession has somehow survived. Could be it's only a small bit of copper, broken from a tool, that can readily combine.
Hugely different if you use the acetylene FLAME to heat copper vs. you have copper chip or "smear" on fittings.
PeteM
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Location
- West Coast, USA
Sure. But what do you think would have been more common over the past 100 years:
1) Someone opens up a tank of acetylene and proceeds to bath his workspace with the gas while striking something with a non-sparking hammer.
2) Plumber opens up air-acetylene rig (I still have mine) near a copper fitting and takes some time to get it lit with the usual flint striker.
#2 "experiment" must have been done millions of times, with few plumbers blown up from acetylide formation in the process.
AFAIK Limit I saw on some regulations was max 65% copper.
Process of acetylide formation could take time or other special circumstances. And no big deal if small amount of it would explode in scenario 1 or 2. Spontaneous ignition of torch and maybe slightly supprised welder. (it's not like you have suddenly 2lbs brick of acetylide sitting on your workbench)
SAG 180
Titanium
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2007
- Location
- Cairns, Qld, Australia
Could be worse: lab workers pouring picric acid stain down the sink to dispose of the stuff when it gets a bit old, and causing explosive copper picrates to form in the brass S bend. The poor old plumber comes along to replace the leaky S bend and it explodes when he puts a pipe wrench to it.
DMF_TomB
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2008
- Location
- Rochester, NY, USA
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i have used aluminum bronze hammers 4 decades never had a problem never heard of anybody else have a problem
.
but from experience one day have oxyacetylene torch mixed for neutral flame put against bench flame goes out. somebody had a balloon in shop. i cut off knot and fill with oxyacetylene and tied end and put in vise. it was smaller than soccer ball.
.
i light torch and pop balloon which explodes. the blast almost knocked me over. the noise overloaded my left ear and i hear echo bounce off far wall and in my right ear. sounded like tractor trailer crashed into side of building. blast went straight up and knocked dust off ceiling beams. my boss comes out of meeting thats 200 feet away seeing what happened. i had hearing loss in my left ear for over a year.
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outside boss had acetylene and oxygen cylinders in storage racks separated over 20 feet apart. acetylene you dont get a fireball you get a boom. obviously i will never pop a balloon again
I found the answer to my question on the AMPCO Metals website.
"Ampco offers the following common-sense guidelines for Tool Use, Maintenance and Storage, consistent with OSHA General Industry Standard 1910.242 and HTI recommendations:
• Do not use non-sparking hand tools in direct contact with acetylene, due to the possible formation of explosive acetylides, especially in the presence of moisture."
I do not know anything about acetylides. Time for more research.
PeteM was correct and I appreciate his comments. I read up on making acetylide. It seams somewhat complicated to make. I guess the real problem when using nonsparking tools around acetylene is potentially creating a micro explosion that could set off a larger one (the reason you are using nonsparking tools in the first place).
"Ampco offers the following common-sense guidelines for Tool Use, Maintenance and Storage, consistent with OSHA General Industry Standard 1910.242 and HTI recommendations:
• Do not use non-sparking hand tools in direct contact with acetylene, due to the possible formation of explosive acetylides, especially in the presence of moisture."
I do not know anything about acetylides. Time for more research.
PeteM was correct and I appreciate his comments. I read up on making acetylide. It seams somewhat complicated to make. I guess the real problem when using nonsparking tools around acetylene is potentially creating a micro explosion that could set off a larger one (the reason you are using nonsparking tools in the first place).
JLarsson
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 15, 2014
- Location
- Western Montana
PeteM gave this answer in post #3.
steve-l
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2012
- Location
- Geilenkirchen, Germany
I must tell the story of my father's friend. I was about 10 years old then and I remember that this friend had an old Ford flathead V8 that needed valve work and my father brought me with him to help. The friend had pulled the cylinder head nuts and the head would not budge, so he started the engine and it ran with no results. (The head gasket had been varnished you see.) So he stuck his acetylene torch over the carb. Well that did it with an almighty bang, the head went through the barn roof and was never found again.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
Jayzuss! Or Darwin!
For those who have never had the privilege? That's what the discerning used a Copper-faced hammer for, rednecks any-old ignorant hammer.
Tap the head laterally or at opposite directions each end, shear the gasket if not a clean break at the joining, get yer gasket scraper outta the box.
No drama. Just dirt and tedium. And the roof don't leak.
While we're on the subject of explosion hazards:
A shop owner I know had a frightening experience. There was a coolant spill from one of his CNCs. The clean-up boy sucked up the coolant with a wet-or-dry vac, then proceeded to finish clean-up around the shop. A week or so later, he turned on the vac. The resulting explosion blew the top up into the roof, making a large dent in the metal. The contaminated and degrading coolant had produced methane in the vac.
I NEVER leave liquids in my shop vac anymore.
A shop owner I know had a frightening experience. There was a coolant spill from one of his CNCs. The clean-up boy sucked up the coolant with a wet-or-dry vac, then proceeded to finish clean-up around the shop. A week or so later, he turned on the vac. The resulting explosion blew the top up into the roof, making a large dent in the metal. The contaminated and degrading coolant had produced methane in the vac.
I NEVER leave liquids in my shop vac anymore.
PlasmaOnTheBrain
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2012
- Location
- Albany Ny USA
The copper acetylide formation is more worrisome when your running acetylene in copper piping...
Like think manifolds for Oxy/fuel welding/cutting stations back in the days when that was the standard for welding and you had bulk tank setups.
Like think manifolds for Oxy/fuel welding/cutting stations back in the days when that was the standard for welding and you had bulk tank setups.
