Possibly a NEW Trucking Scam- Beware of UnAuthorized pickups

I've bought a pretty fair amount of machines and had them shipped in the last 12 years, but this week, I've experienced
a pretty bewildering problem. I bought an Oliver Shaper from an Ebay seller located in Detroit last week. Their ad said local pickup, which to me, means
THEY're NOT going to get involved in arranging shipping. So I call a broker that's been bugging me to ship machines and have him run some quotes just using the zip code,
NO ADDRESS. But the zip code locates the machine somewhere in Detroit So he comes back at $530.00 and I say FINE let's get it picked up. On Monday I informed the seller that I would
pay to get the machine palletized, because that would be cheaper than to send it on a flatbed. I receive a bill of Lading on Tuesday, and send it to the seller on Wednesday. They inform me that the machine
had already been picked up on Monday, and NOT by the trucking company that I agreed to. Fact it was picked up before I even sent my broker the address. Appears the trucking company shows up and says they're there to pick up a 3000 pound shipment. The same weight that was sent out for a quote. Since this warehouse KNEW I was going to get the machine shipped, they FIGURED this was MY company , wrote out a Bill of Lading and shipped it. so it arrives in Portland , Oregon today, and I'm informed the shipping is COD for $4600.00. Now I Don't have an account with this trucking company, I NEVER contacted them to move the machine, my BROKER never contacted them to move the machine, but they took it upon themselves to go move it. Because the ebay company warehouse released it to them, and signed their bill of lading, then they figure they're now my trucking company.

My broker informed me that since the sellers released the machine to them, then it's either their problem or my problem. Despite the fact they were NEVER told to go pick up the machine. So This is just a warning. Never take anything for granted, keep in constant communication with sellers of machines, and keep them informed. After the weekend I'm going to continue to deal with this. It's like trucking companies all of a sudden have become ambulance chasers. But the really scary thing is, this trucking company could have been ANYONE with a truck, and right now they could have my machine. With the internet Trucking Load boards, and most brokers not KNOWING the truckers, losing loads I think is a REAL possiblilty. Getting hosed on shipping is one thing, but this load could have just as easily disappeared.

I had a similar thing happen. Truck line A always has shipped for my nameless vendor. Well known and reasonably priced truck line in all my dealings with them, never have had a bill over $400.00 wisconsin to Iowa. All of a sudden I get 2 bills in a row, 1 for 1100, second for 900 something. I sit on the bills for a couple weeks and call them, they can reduce my rates to 350 and 250 respectively. Next job with that vendor I make sure shipping is call when complete. Truck Line B was $165.00. I think they are banking that the "ap lady" knows no better and will merely pay the bill. I was told on the phone from truck line A: " did you call to get a quote?". I have never gotten a quote, before, vendor just shipped and it showed up at a reasonable price...

Not sure who you need to contact but it sounds like a crime has been committed and it should be federal because they did it across state lines.

I'm confused here, how did this mysterious trucking company find out there was a machine waiting to be picked up and brought to your place, if you or the tool seller didn't contact them? are they hacking the ebay transaction or something? or someone slimy behind the scenes at the sellers location calling his buddies trucking company?

i had something like this happen to me, trucker showed up to pick a shipment up but since I had already spoken with a different driver on the phone, I was confused enough to look into it. I sent the second one away, but was never sure if this was an honest mix up or someone was pulling a fast one. After thinking about this, it is surprizing it doesnt happen more. How often does a truck show up and you put a valuble load on it in exchange for a piece of paper that often doesnt even have enough info on it to identify the trucker?

SND said:

I'm confused here, how did this mysterious trucking company find out there was a machine waiting to be picked up and brought to your place, if you or the tool seller didn't contact them? are they hacking the ebay transaction or something? or someone slimy behind the scenes at the sellers location calling his buddies trucking company?

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I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that Brian put out his trucking needs on one of those online trucker quoting services...where alot of truckers can see it. OTOH, perhaps truck brokers do the same thing....so I will alert my broker to this scam. Makes me glad my next valuable shipment ($10K) will be coming from a riggers warehouse so I can alert them not to release it to just any trucker.

Seems like in Brian's situation any Oliver shaper is not worth much more than the original $530 shipping quote, so perhaps he can tell the scammers "look, it's $530 or you keep the damn thing, and I'll file criminal charges. Or bring it here, I'll give ya $530 cash and I'll just consider it an honest mistake" (but then get the truck identity info when he arrives and alert the authorities anyway) and eventually they will relent since that's way more than the scrap yard will give them for it. Regardless, thanks for the warning Brian.

Ahh ok, so it sounds like the broker posted it for bid with enough information to determine which dealer had the machine(only dealer in that zip code?), and who's address it was going to, before Brian contacted them with the actual address. Pretty ballsy on the trucker to just go snatch it. Pretty sure their name can be reported to whichever broke site thing it was listed on?

Milacron said:

(but then get the truck identity info when he arrives and alert the authorities anyway)

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There are two important numbers to get (along with any other info):

USDOT Number: What is a USDOT Number? - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

MC Number: https://ntl.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/64/~/mc-numbers-for-motor-carriers


Rex

I agree with TimW. Taking property without permission is theft or larceny, if the equipment is worth more than $400 to $1000, it's Grand Larceny. It was your property, the person took possession, and carried it away. It also appears to be a violation of 18 USC § 2314 - Transportation of stolen goods, securities, moneys, fraudulent State tax stamps, or articles used in counterfeiting. Given that they are trying to get money to give you back your property, it may be extortion. At the very least, this is possession of stolen property. Call the local cops where it was taken and report it stolen. Call the local cops where you believe it is, and report it stolen. Let them both know that the goods were transported across state lines. Next time you correspond with the guy who has it, get names. And if you know anyone in law enforcement, have them come with you when you try to pick the item up. Have your Bill of Sale. Have an affadavit from the seller that the shipping company represented falsely that they were the owners. Have a copy of the Stolen Property Report, with the serial number on it.

Communicate with the guys who stole it, and show up with your buddy "who is going to help me with the transfer of this item". At the very least, the guy is sitting there with property that you have clear title to, and that was reported stolen.

Good luck,

Jim

Edit: On reading Milacron's sensible advice, I realize I'm being vindictive and a bit over-the-top, and it's likely that this would be counterproductive. His approach is likely to have the best outcome. That said, I'd still report it stolen in both the place of origin, and the place it currently is.

The trucking company that picked up my machine was USF Holland. It was then transfered to USF Reddaway where it is now sitting in their Portland Oregon Dock.
This isn't a fly by night company, but they had NO AUTHORIZATION to pick up my machine. Showing up saying they are there to pick up a 3000 pound load, that somehow they figured
out from some Broker posting a load. Or MAYBE an employee at this warehouse calls up his buddy at the trucking company and says we've got a 3000 pound shipment.
But still the truck drivers are not paid on commission as far as I know. They're union worker bees. What would motivate a company truck driver to take a load just to fill up their truck.

The really outrageous thng is the fact they wanted $4600.00 to move essentially a ONE pallet load. I could have sent a full sized truck and had the machine shipped
all by itself as a TRUCKLOAD for less than that. Where do these companies come up with their rates? Do they think we are completely stupid?

The bottom line is my initial $530 quote is just about the tops this machine is worth on top of what I paid for it. At this point I DON'T want the machine, but I also don't want to lose the money I paid for it.
The ebay company MAY be partially to blame, since they released the machine without me shipping them the bill of lading. But I can't really blame them, they don't know me, and a truck shows up saying we're here
to pick up a 3000 pound shipment.

It's a DOUBLE spindle Oliver Shaper Don- worth a little more than a single spindle.

We just had the exact same thing happen at my work last week. We were shipping some parts from a shop in British Columbia to Ohio. On the day the shipment was scheduled for, a truck shows up and picks up the crate, then 2 hours later another truck shows up to pick up the same load. The broker we use never contacted this first truck to get this load. They took it to Calgary and told us that it would take 4-6 weeks for them to return it, unless we paid $360 to have it returned. Because it was a really hot shipment we ended up paying it just to get it back within a few days.

Brian@VersaMil said:

It's a DOUBLE spindle Oliver Shaper Don- worth a little more than a single spindle.

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Yeah, but knowing you, you got it for 150 bucks But true, what it's worth is what mostly matters as far as your annoyance level on the matter is concerned.

Brian@VersaMil said:

The trucking company that picked up my machine was USF Holland.

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Hmmmm, I was expecting, maybe, an Owner Operator or small fleet operator, not an LTL mega fleet.
There's something fishy goin' on here!


Rex

I'd probably go to that dock and get it, disappear out the back door without signing and then tell them " when you bring it in we'll talk about it" essentially steal it back.

bjorn toulouse said:

Hmmmm, I was expecting, maybe, an Owner Operator or small fleet operator, not an LTL mega fleet.
There's something fishy goin' on here!

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Same here....that it was USF Holland is especially strange isn't it ? All this time I was thinking Vinny's Hot Hauls or similar.

My first sentence in the post describes my feelings well- BEWILDERED. This is so far removed from something I figured I'd have to deal with. I've got freight kind of figured out. never in my wildest dreams
would I figure some company would snag a shipment and expect to be paid four times what the machines even worth just for moving it. Tuesday will be interesting. Nothing's gonna happen until then.
Fortunately I bought the machine on a whim, I Don't NEED it, and if I don't get this one, another one will come along. It's NOT like it's some rare as hens teeth machine. I did a PAYPAL transfer from American Express.
Not sure what protection that will offer, as I've never tried canceling a payment. Problem is, I don't really know how much fault I can find in the actual ebay seller. They loaded the machine on a truck that showed up to pick
up a machine. Not fair to screw them out of their money. The trucking company is truly the guilty party. An earlier message through the ebay system to the seller never made it, so this machine languished for a few extra days.

Because I make machine tools and am constantly buying castings that cost upwards of three bucks a pound now, I'm NOT a bottom feeder machine tool buyer. If I can get an industrial quality machine for LESS than a buck a pound, even if it needs to be rebuilt, I feel it's a fair price. We all want to steal machines for 150 bucks, but even at $1300.00, an Oliver shaper at that point is selling for fifty cents a pound- 1/6th of what JUST the raw castings would cost in 2012. So a machine that's already 75 to 85% completed if you think about stripping the machine down to the castings and rebuilding the spindles, is STILL a steal. Add $530 for shipping , and the machine is at my dock for less than 2K- still under a buck a pound. I just paid 98 cents per pound for JUST a 5 1/4 inch bar of 4140HT. the 24 foot bar cost exactly what the Oliver Shaper cost, and it needs to be completely machined into something useful.

While there's no direct evidence of it in this case, don't overlook the possibility of collusion between the seller and the shipper. They would have all the information, and a financial motive if cut into the deal. Not saying it happened here, but it could.

Chip

Is the machine stolen, in that they were not the authorized carrier, and they went and took it anyway?

Is this then an issue for the local police force, to recover stolen property?

Or can you go to small claims court, for the recovery of your machine that they took without your permission?

Small claims court?!?! This deal involves interstate transportation of (possibly) stolen goods! The Feds frown on that shit!
As mentioned, there is also the possible issue of collusion betwixt the seller and the trucking co.

There is also the side issue of the Ebay message that never (?) made it to the seller.....which may have some bearing on the saga.


Rex

There is also the side issue of the Ebay message that never (?) made it to the seller.....which may have some bearing on the saga.

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I've had that happen at least twice, maybe 3 times. each time I was SURE I sent it properly, but later there was no evidence of it in my sent files and the intended recipient claimed to not receive it. Glad to hear it's not just me. Now I always check the 'send a copy to my email' box and so far it's always gone through and plus I have the email as evidence that I sent it.