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Opinion on Rockwell 11x36 lathe

OK machines for lighter work. There is a Yahoo group where you can get more information on them. Parts availability is very limited. I have an 11X36 which is used mainly for repair work on the farm. It does a nice job.
 
I have an 11x37 Delta Rockwell and I like it very well. As stated, parts availability is practically non-existent, but fortunately most wear parts are available off the shelf with a few exceptions. As for the basic lathe, it seems a much heavier and more rigid design than most other machines in it’s class such as the Southbend or Logan, though it’s certainly no Monarch.

That said, as much as I fought myself on it, I’m not one to leave “good enough” alone, so I went through my lathe from one end to the other, down to the last bolt; cleaning, adjusting, making new bushings, and so on. In my opinion, this lathe is very well designed with a minimum of complexity and with a few exceptions, very easy to work on. To my knowledge, there are only a few problem areas to be concerned with.

1) If the head stock selector's safety interlock is not kept adjusted, it is possible to attempt to engage back gear while running. This will lock the spindle (in fact, it IS the “Lock” position for changing chucks) and generally breaks something. So check the bull gear, back gear (directly below the spindle), and pinion gear for damaged teeth. Also check to see if the interlock friction pad is correctly adjusted, which indicates maintenance and unlikely damage due to operator error (at least in this way). This is probably the single most expensive damage AND very problematic to replace/repair. If this is good, the lathe is likely to be serviceable.

2) The apron clutch incorporates a worm gear, driven from a worm that in turn is driven from the keyway of the lead screw. That worm gear/clutch is some brass alloy and tends to wear out. I believe the leading cause of this damage is wear to the worm bushing itself allowing the worm to ride up on the teeth of the worm gear and start cutting them down, leading to rapid failure. If the power feeds work on your apron, then I would DEFINITELY pull it down ASAP and check the worm bushing to make sure it’s capable of restraining the cantilever forces on the drive worm to prevent early failure of the clutch. If it is bad, there is a source for them or you can make your own. It’s not that hard to make other than the worm gear hob required.

3) The gear selectors in the QCGB have bronze gears that are often damaged by swarf or lack of lube. These are easily reproduced from bronze stock but should be checked. QCGB gears are supposedly all available off the shelf.

4) The beds are generally (always? every one I’ve seen anyway) hardened and show no wear on any I’ve looked at. I’m told that everyone parting out Rockwells always just scraps the beds because you can’t sell them even if they are perfect. This matches with what I’ve seen. HOWEVER, the saddle is not hard and will wear, though the fit to the bed ways is generally not a problem unless lube was badly ignored. It’s the cross slide you have to check carefully. The design is less than ideal with no wipers and ways that are on the same level as the surrounding saddle. This lets contaminates find an easy path right under the cross slide, particularly if flood coolant was used. Check the cross slide carefully.

These are the potential problem areas that I am aware of. Other than the parts availability issue, and the lack of a strong user base, I think the Rockwell 11” will make a fine lathe for any HSM or light manufacturing/prototyping job.
 
If there is nothing obviously wrong (check the typical/obvious stuff) or the specific items I mentioned above, then in my opinion, that's a heck of a deal for the bare lathe. If you can get chucks and tooling, that would be even better.

I paid less than $1k for mine with 6.5" Buck 3 jaw, dog driver, index-able turret tool holder, bed mounted turret including tooling (2 nice 1/2" Albrechts, threading die holder/guide, etc.). But it did not have fixed and follow steady rests or the taper, all of which are rather rare for the 11" Rockwell. Gears and head stock were absolutely perfect other than a slipped lock ring on the selector making the back gear impossible to engage. I thought there was just an adjustment needed on the apron clutch, but turned out the clutch worm gear was shot (I didn't know this was a problem item at the time). But the “gotcha” for me was that the bottom of the cross slide was absolutely TERRIBLE, which could have been a minor disaster due to scarcity of good parts. Fortunately, and completely counter to my typical luck, I met (on the net) a marvelous fellow who gave me a truly amazing deal on a very nice “matched” saddle and cross slide from his parts lathe.

Others have mentioned having significant wear in cross slide area as well, including some “in the business” who see quite a few over time, so I would suggest VERY carefully looking at the ways on the saddle (with the cross moved back), and if you see ANY sign of galling or scoring, take 10 minutes (or less) and remove the cross slide. It’s very easy, just remove the SHCS behind the tool post, back off the gib screws, and slide it off the back side taking care not to drop or bind the gib. Before removing the cross slide you might want to remove the rear shroud (2 SHCS hold it) to see what the rear of the ways looks like.

You might also want to check the vari-speed drive in the cabinet. It is also very common for these to need bushings, though if badly worn, perhaps shafts as well. No big deal, just 1” CRS for most of them, but I was able to turn my under to 0.970 and make custom bushings for the one bad one I had.

Oh, and it seems the vari-speed “tachometer” (to use the word VERY loosely) is a bit problematic. Mine has a broken casting and I’ve talked to 2 other with similar problems. I’m setting mine up with a digital tachometer, and others have ditched the vari-speed drive completely in favor of a VFD to control the speed. I’m using both the vari-speed and a VFD so that I can get a broader speed range from about 30 rpms up to just over 2000. The spindle will handle the over-speed just fine, particularly in an HSM invironment.

Just thought of something else. Make sure you KNOW what type of grease is in the spindle bearings. The OEM spec was for calcium based grease. If that’s what is **KNOWN** to be in there, then there are modern compatible greases available. Problem is, over the last 30+ years, calcium based greases have been largely supplanted by Lithium based greases. Unfortunately, if you add Lith to Calcium, it will cake up and can certainly cause bearing problems. This happens all to often, and in my case, the owner died and the son had no idea what his father had put in there. When I took it down to purge and change to a modern synthetic, even though the grease looked good when I just checked behind the shield/seal, I found it had already caked up pretty badly. So that’s all flushed out now and I know exactly what’s in there.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I’ve grown rather fond of this lathe and I’ve been through every part now, so as long as my memory does not fail me, I’ll be glad to pass on what (I think) I have learned. Good luck!
 
Thanks BadDog for all the info.

Now I have to decide between getting the Rockwell + parts + repairs + paint = Hopefully less than $1200

or

Get a new lathemaster ( import ) + final fit and finish = for $1200

I like to buy american when i can.

I posted some info on the lathemaster here: Lathemaster


Thanks
Todd
 
The Lathemaster you've posted to is a step down in capability to the Rockwell, but it appears to be the "on paper" functional equivalent of the 9" South Bend, Model B, which has manual change gears for threading (no quick change gearbox), and automatic longitudinal and cross feed. You should be able to find a NICE 9" SB Mdl B within your price range, and then all issues of parts availability go away.

However, if the 11x36 Rockwell is in good shape, I wouldn't hestitate to go for it. Just add looking for hard-to-find spare parts to your To-Do List.

Jeff
 
That's pretty much how I see it too. The lathemaster is a fairly capable machine, in it's class. It can and does produce good stuff for quite a few people and has a strong following among hobby machinists. However, they do have issues. Bearings made from brass rather than a more appropriate bronze, gears that shatter when dropped as well as loosing teeth if you don’t keep the swarf clear, and several “upgrade projects” that are considered almost mandatory (though not as pressing or numerous on the LM as they are on the other import 9x20 machines). I would also mention that the lack of a QCGB is going to drive you nuts after a very short while changing gears. I’ve known several people with lathes lacking QCGB who felt the HAD to “upgrade” (new machine or parts) to get away from changing gears all the time. Oh, and on the LM you’ll loose power cross feed too. And don’t forget the Rockwell takes 5C in the spindle rather than elaborate and less precise solutions involving custom chucks that still leave you dealing with a less than 1” through hole (one of my main reasons for the Rockwell).

I also have a 9x20 Griz which is in the same category as the LM, but not exactly the same. I can tell you there is NO comparison between any machine features you care to consider. The Rockwell weighs at least 3 times what the LM does for starters. And in fit/finish/feel/features/function there is NO comparison, the Rockwell wins hands down across the board.

In my opinion, it comes down to the following questions.

1) Do you want to set it down and go to work, with consideration of your position on the “must do” upgrades?
2) Are you particularly concerned about limited parts availability and limited support (from “community” or industry)
3) Are you limited in space and NEED a *true* bench top lathe?
4) And most importantly, do you KNOW that all work you’ll do will fit the work envelope for this machine (which is FAR less than 9x30). That includes “through spindle” and collet work.

Again, this is just my opinion, but if you can’t answer a firm “yes” to all 4 questions (with the possible exception of #3), the Rockwell wins.

The other option presented, which is to look at SB or similar (like Logan 10”), provide other options for a comparable work envelope (to the LM) but with slightly different trade offs. I won’t bust on the little imports too badly, they can and do make good parts, and I don’t regret my Griz purchase at all, but going from my Bridgeport or Rockwell (which I just got put together after going completely through it) to the little Griz, it feels like going from a nice solid older Eldorado with a few miles to a new Geo Tracker. The Geo will probably get me there, but I’ll take the Eldo thank you...
 
Thanks Guys - This is the stuff I need to hear..

I have the space, and I am about to roll in my 1917 LS 20x144

I would rather have a US machine than an import, I was just concerned with getting stuck with something that is too wornout

I will see if I can close the deal on the Rockwell!

Thanks!
 








 
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